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But what his intention was, is irrelevant, because he couldn'tve made that chicane without cutting it, and whether he wanted to or not, he negated the advantage he had by cutting the chicane, by conceding the position.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
What would you suggest then, in a similar situation? Surely conceding the position so that the gap was the same as before the chicane was cut is sufficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by fandango
Hamilton clearly had nowhere to go. Unless you're suggesting that he should've parked his car so that Kimi could go through the chicane without Lewis cutting it. As a competitive race driver, with a split second to think about that - In your dreams.Quote:
If he had gone through the chicane behind Kimi he woudn't have been in such a good position to pass him going into La Source.
Some say he couldn't have have gone through the chicane behind Kimi without crashing into him. This is, imo, because he was way too ambitious trying to pass at the chicane: Kimi had already won it at the first apex, and there simply isn't room for two cars to go through side-by-side.
Watch the actual footage. Hamilton brakes at least half a second later than Kimi, going into the chicane.Quote:
So he outbrakes Kimi at La Source, but found it impossible to use those same brakes (as only he can, according to some) one corner earlier?
He would've been in Raikkonen's sidepod, or rear wheel. There was no room at that chicane, because Raikkonen was dictating the line through there, and he chose to use all of the chicane.Quote:
Where would Hamilton have been if he hadn't cut the chicane? Not as well placed as he was as he went over the line. Kimi was left racing Hamilton where was on the track, not where he should have been.
An armchair expert, I see.Quote:
I think it's also worth mentioning that Kimi was a bit of a dunce here too. Knowing that Lewis had an unfair advantage and would be forced to yield to him or face a penalty, he didn't really use the situation to his advantage.
Just take a look to my first post in this thread. I conceded that Hamilton gave back the position. And thus I said that he was right.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
However the stewards think he didn't do it right. That's why I would like to have a chance to see the telemetry data. If it's clear that Lewis lifted in rder to give up his advantage, than he shouldn't have been punished.
This isn't about intentions, it's about advantages that one gets unfairly.
And like always, we, the fans are kept in the dark in regard to the relevant data, needed to judge the situation.
the video posted here from onboard..goin into the chicane...One can clearly see Lewis was way faster on the approach of it..Kimi saw Lewis was goin to make an attempt to pass him an staid on the right...Due to this blocking move of Kimi he couldn't make the first part of the chicane in a propre way..look at where his car is positioned coming out of the first part of the chicane..than look at the position of any car taking the chicane in a "normal" way..having Lewis besides him he just not left any room for Lewis leaving him no other choise than to cut of the chicane to avoid an accident...
also the other video...Like others said..You have to see the data...I persoanly am not an expert to tell from this video Lewis was goin at full speed or not...anyway..just like in so many incidents in the past...Lewis let Kimi pass by again...normal racing incident one would say..end of story...
face 3...Lewis being back in the position from before the chicane...behind Kimi...Kimi passing Lewis on the straight line meaning Lewis was slower...also meaning the cutting of the chicane didn't gave him any advantage...anyway Lewis was able again to break way later than Kimi..and moves back into 1st spot..although..and again..why is this never mentioned by the marchals for dangerous driving ?...Kimi tried to take him out by aiming for his right rear tire...
That's the relevant part of it. Kimi had the right to chose the line because he had the winning line in the chicane.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
Hamilton had to chose between braking and giving up the chicane or cut it. He chose the one that put him in a difficult situation.
We need to know if he did enough to negate the advantage he gained by cutting the chicane.
That's called racing. Hamilton was the one who made the mistake by thinking he would be able to overtake Kimi on the outside going into the chicane. Obviously he wasn't in a superior position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonieke
There were several other people who overtook going into that chicane, they were all completely in front of the overtaken car when they turned in for the first part of the chicane and could take the right line to exit it. Hamilton was relying on Kimi letting him through and that was never going to happen.
I wasn't claiming that you thought otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Exactly - I don't think that Lewis should be punished for whether he lifted or didn't, because the end result was that he conceded the position to Raikkonen, negating the advantage he had.Quote:
However the stewards think he didn't do it right. That's why I would like to have a chance to see the telemetry data. If it's clear that Lewis lifted in rder to give up his advantage, than he shouldn't have been punished.
This isn't about intentions, it's about advantages that one gets unfairly.
I would like to see the telemetry available to the public, even though I dont think that would ever happen, due to fear that giving away telemetry will give other F1 teams an advantage.Quote:
And like always, we, the fans are kept in the dark in regard to the relevant data, needed to judge the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
to me the superior position is the one being on the ideal racing line...It was actualy Kimi making a block move..staying on the inside line..off the racing line....But also meaning he couldn't take the chicane in the ideal way..pushing the car besides him off the track...
but like you said..it's called racing and this should have been seen as just a racing incident...end of story !
Setting aside the rights and wrongs of this, what pisses me off as an F1 fan is that a great race has been ruined. Whether the decision is overturned or not the 2008 Belgian GP will be remembered for this and not for the dramatic and exciting last few laps.
Coming into work on Monday morning people are not talking about a great race at one of the great F1 venues, and they should be.
If he didn't lift, than he didn't give back the advantage he gained by cutting the chicane, and he is guilty.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
If he lifted than he is unguilty.
They will have to make the telemetry data public for the appeal anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel