It's time to screw Russia over

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Originally Posted by ioan

Maybe it was the Americans who supported the Romanian revolution. There is no proof however, not for nor against it.

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Certainly, the CIA and other agencies will have been active in countries like Romania at the time. However, there is no comparison between the assistance rendered during/after the Cold War and what happened in Iraq.

Also, it would be wrong, as I'm sure you would agree, to overstate the role of the US and others in the overthrows of those Communist regimes. This could also be said of Serbia in 1999 — it wasn't the NATO bombing that brought the Milosevic regime to its absolute end, but the people rising up against him. I don't think it's helpful for every nation that has become a democracy as a result of actions involving the US to have to remain eternally grateful for its support.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Maybe it was the Americans who supported the Romanian revolution. There is no proof however, not for nor against it.

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Certainly, the CIA and other agencies will have been active in countries like Romania at the time. However, there is no comparison between the assistance rendered during/after the Cold War and what happened in Iraq.

Also, it would be wrong, as I'm sure you would agree, to overstate the role of the US and others in the overthrows of those Communist regimes. This could also be said of Serbia in 1999 — it wasn't the NATO bombing that brought the Milosevic regime to its absolute end, but the people rising up against him. I don't think it's helpful for every nation that has become a democracy as a result of actions involving the US to have to remain eternally grateful for its support.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You think so?! Well we are not yet sure enough of that after almost 20 years! :laugh: .

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I didn't need 20 years. It was obvious we didn't do it on our own. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Maybe it was the Americans who supported the Romanian revolution. There is no proof however, not for nor against it.

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I''m sure there are proofs but " somebody up there " has no interest to make them public. In fact you seem to be the only person who still has doubts.
For the record, it's generally accepted that both CIA and KGB offered a helping hand. See? Sometimes they even work hand in hand. The result was a Mosfilm production with a script made in Hollywwod. :laugh: Broadcasted live on CNN.
Seems that KGB had also a word to say in the "velvet revolution" of Cechoslovakia.

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Originally Posted by Eki

They didn't need (probably didn't even want to) Americans to "liberate" them by bombing their country to stone age, like in Iraq or Serbia..

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Probably none of you know that in the " fire of revolution " when we were shot on the streets by God knew who, the guy who claimed the leadership of the country appeared on TV and said that it was established a contact with SU embassy and SU was asked for help. I'm still laughing when I remember the panic that they'd come to bomb us.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

I didn't need 20 years. It was obvious we didn't do it on our own. :laugh:


I''m sure there are proofs but " somebody up there " has no interest to make them public. In fact you seem to be the only person who still has doubts.
For the record, it's generally accepted that both CIA and KGB offered a helping hand. See? Sometimes they even work hand in hand. The result was a Mosfilm production with a script made in Hollywwod. :laugh: Broadcasted live on CNN.
Seems that KGB had also a word to say in the "velvet revolution" of Cechoslovakia.

Probably none of you know that in the " fire of revolution " when we were shot on the streets by God knew who, the guy who claimed the leadership of the country appeared on TV and said that it was established a contact with SU embassy and SU was asked for help. I'm still laughing when I remember the panic that they'd come to bomb us.

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:up: :rotflmao:

BTW, yesterday the European Council decided not to do anything. First they will wait for the Russians to retreat to the pre August 6 positions, and than they will decide what to do.
I think tey will have to wait for quite some time, maybe this will help them get to a better conclusion next time. :laugh:

Yeah, I like statements like " EU will stay vigilent ". :laugh:

Yeah, EU and "vigilant" is a bit odd, ain't it? If you guys are so "vigilant", why do you still have American troops stationed there? ;)

Russia, long and short, is teaching those uppity Georgians what happens when they try to think for themselves rather than follow Moscow's line. Russia's foreign minister ain't even hiding now that his goal is to topple Saakashvili. They won't EVER retreat to the August 6 position, because they want to annex South Ossetia - which of course would put Tbilisi within Russian artillery range.

The West has lots of oil, they just can't pump it out as easily as they can with Russian and Arab energy supplies. How about things get done right - start putting our money into producing our own crude from coal, oil shale, tar sands, et cetera, and reduce consumption. Cellulosic ethanol, more efficient vehicles, electrified railways, trolley buses, better mass transit.

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Originally Posted by BrentJackson

Yeah, EU and "vigilant" is a bit odd, ain't it? If you guys are so "vigilant", why do you still have American troops stationed there? ;) .

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Because americans don't have any intention to withdraw them. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by BrentJackson

The West has lots of oil, they just can't pump it out as easily as they can with Russian and Arab energy supplies. How about things get done right - start putting our money into producing our own crude from coal, oil shale, tar sands, et cetera, and reduce consumption. Cellulosic ethanol, more efficient vehicles, electrified railways, trolley buses, better mass transit.

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It's not so simple:
- oil and gas aren't regenerable resources
- a common breakdown of electricity may generate chaos ( and we have a few examples )
- cost of electricity
- we need energy to generate electicity

America is going to send aid to Georgia in the amount of $1B.

Thoughts?

Aid for what?