what is different nowadays ??Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
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what is different nowadays ??Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
I don't get it?Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
Some of that vision is from the last few years!
really? rallying is very much the same these days, not much different apart from less manuf (ok and uglier cars)Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
this is video with how I hope wrc can return to! but probably I am only dreaming right?
GROUP B in FINLAND 85-86 - YouTube
Actually this is what I do not want to see in WRC. Group B cars were horrible to drive and apart from great sound, they just do not appeal to me. I prefer these tidy modern cars anyday, specially S2000 cars are most of the time a joy to watch. It's not just all about power ... so no thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by makinen_fan
i totally agree with cali!
Those days can never return. Nowadays a common road car has better suspension and tyres than those overpowered gr.B cars had. As You said they had great sound and huge power but compared to modern cars they were so slow in corners and braking, it was impossible to take a handbrake turn on asphalt so they either could try hairpins very very slowly or they had to reverse.
Wow, an era isn't just defined by what cars are driving. The championship really ment something in those days, it was as high profile as F1, and every single event stood out from the other.
If you ask the drivers, those cars were actually incredible to drive, not horrible. Lancia 037, damnit that's so much better than a DS3 WRC.
:D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Josti
I hope your kidding... High profile was mainly due to historical context, what wasn't "bigger" back then than nowdays? Boeing 707 was a mean machine, produced helluva lot of noice, smoke, etc. but modern-day Airbus' kicks it in every feature...
Gr.B was a phenomena, yes. There's absolutely no denying it. But wishing to get those times back always makes me put the person saying it to category "rally fan" instead of "rally enthusiastic". :) One interesting fact: back in 1985 season the average winning margin was 5,1 minutes, even with Safari and Cote D'Ivoire results excluded. Now, if we look last season (2011), the average winning margin was 0,7 minutes! I wonder which is more interesting to follow - from the perspective of even results. With gr.B, there's a problem that memories have grown sweeter with time.
Yes, modern rally cars are much more technology advanced, faster in corners and SAFER, but none of them could beat that experience - 1985 1000 Lakes Rally Finland - Audi Quattro S1 Only - YouTube. This should stay in history anyway, too dangerous.
The majority of the footage in that video appeared to be from 2000-2005. During that period, there were more manufacturers, more drivers capable of winning and therefore more competition and more excitement, 2 things which are largely missing from the WRC, and have been for some time.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I mean in the way of public, media and manufacturer interest it was bigger, let alone most rallies were run nationwide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha_Koo
Of course we shouldn't go back to Group B, it is a phenomena your right, something unique that's irreplaceble and can't be replicated (it wouldn't even make sense). But it stands alone so strong because it was radically different than what was there before and again what was after. And those statistics don't say much, rallies were longer and cars weren't as reliable as now, it's not to be compared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha_Koo
[quote="Josti"]I mean in the way of public, media...
And that probably caused most of the troubles. Some people had became really crasy not realising what danger put themselves rushing in front of those beasts. It is hard to control this situation.
Let's start some rumours.... Tommi Mäkinen spotted at Finland's biggest BMW/Mini dealer... ;)
Shhh... this is my test for how long it will take that MTV3 has rumours about Tommi's contract with Mini... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
I see where you're coming from, but I think the bigger winning time - margin was to do with the manufacturers constantly trying to out do each other, by making their cars even more crazy every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha_Koo
I think the cars from Grp B were way more spectacular and had a lot more road presence, seeing a big, wide arch Quattro thundering through the stages sideways with deafening dump valves, kicking gravel everywhere and spitting flames at you when they went past is a lot better than seeing go kart-ish fiestas and DS3's.
I mean if someone offered me the choice between a 'Grale and a new Fiesta, I know which one I'd choose :D
Good debate though :up:
Some yes, about 5% maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
I agree to those who want those years back. It was a big difference from today. Much of that because of there where more drivers competing of the podiums back then. And the drivers where personalitys. Just the guys you want to see and hear comments from at stageends.
With more manus and also three car teams allowed we should make it possible to have more drivers (not any paying ones) and hopefully they all can compete for podiums.
Not sure if mentioned already, but some interesting news around the PSA group.
Apparently even the French state is considering to buy a part of the company. An article I read today states that they need to cut the budget as soon as possible.
In the last year PSA shares went down 72%.
This will probably have an effect on the rally programme. Many discussions about Citroen exit and Peugeot entry, however, after these reports, I think both may stay out of motorsport for a long time.
I dont think they are considering to leave the WRC. It is pretty good marketing for them, not too costly and very long line of customers with S2000 cars (whic is like free exposure, no customers pay to expose their cars all around Europe) and now with DS3 2WD cars + old WRCars + they have good sponsor support as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis44
They shut down their Le Mans because it was pretty big waste of money for them. Strage looking cars, no customers, normal media exposure only for 24 hours per year and constantly ridiculed by Audi = not worth of their money.
One thing I remember from my Economy lecture that when your sales go down then do not cut your costs on your marketing costs just rethink your strategy (Better to cut the number of staff and their working hours). PSA has done it very well. A few years ago their customer numbers were not so great. Look what has happened now? how many DS3 2WD and 207 S2000 cars you can see in in each rally? Excellent strategy. They just need to reconsider their strategy outside Europe.
Back in the early to mid 1980's Peugoet were in a very bad way economically and sales wise, some say that the WRC programme with the 205T16 was what saved the company. I think Citroen will step down from the top class and remain with R2 DS3 2 wd and Peugeot come in with 208 model.
And Citroen leaving allows Loeb to depart stage left. Job done....unless he finishes at the end of this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
Couple of things: how likey is it Loeb will quit at the end of the year? It must be getting fairly boring for him, with the total lack of competition. Also, any chance we will ever see Loeb in a different car, or is it Citroen or nothing for him?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
I doubt you will see Loeb Rallying a non Citroen. However, he has driven a 911 GT3 and a Oreca-Nissan LMP2 for Sebastien Loeb Racing this year. And that is were his future lies, whether that is next year, who knows? After his off in Portugal, he spent the rest of the weekend at Paul Ricard for the ELMS race; which made me wonder whether he would walk away at the end of this year. Now, I think he might stay for 2013, and try for 10 in a row.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
LOL
People are taking Loebs racing career far more seriously than Loeb does...
eventually he will retire from the sport and all the phychologically scarred people are going to be happy.... you just have to be patient.
You do not have any kind of future at 40 years of age at any motorsport apart from the one you know well...
When he retires all loseres will be happy. :D
Loeb should first lose a championship then retire...
yes it's my biggest hope, retiring after being beaten would be perfect for a champion like him :)Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
A man at M-Sport told me that they tried to get him once but couldn't pay his wages.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
MW would probably have to sell M sport to pay his wages for a year, and then he wouldnt have a car to drive :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Macd
May be he would buy some... with the team :pQuote:
Originally Posted by tfp
Agreed, as long as he is competitive (from him it means being world champion) and as long as he enjoys it, he should stay. I do want to see him against Ogier next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I still think that Ogier missed on a chance to beat the master if he had move to Ford this year. If Loeb retires this year that will greatly undervalue the perception of his career, he is surely the most likely to follow Loeb as WDC.
2013 Ogier would blow away Loeb like this car the tree - http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2012/ostatni/tuscan/abc42.jpg :eek: . At least I suspect he has the ambition to.Quote:
Originally Posted by xavier
absolutely no doubt loeb will retire before VW start its first rally
why you are so certain ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
Again, I was told in NZ by a person whose opinion I respect, that citroen and Loeb have confirmed for next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
Another disclaimer follows.........
I do realise that things change and I also know that I shouldn't believe everything that I'm told! Everyone satisfied? ;) :p : :D
because he doesnt like fair fight with equal cars and drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Are You really so stupid or only pretending?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
aa.. you mean that he needs a little bit weaker car ;-)?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
M-Sport says Novikov will run Fiesta WRC all 13 rounds in 2013.
Can we suspect he´s overtaking JML´s place at Ford? I guess he´s got the money to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartusvuori
Its good he will drive whole season in WRC car and bad it will be with fordQuote:
Originally Posted by Hartusvuori