so they will find time for something other...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
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so they will find time for something other...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Is it really a simplification?
https://sports.yahoo.com/fia-steps-p...BqbGkVciENLahy
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Sad news...
They can still run a satellite team able of winning. They can use BRR for that for example. We'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Very sad news. Skoda has always been committed to motorsport and it will be a big loss for the rally world to lose them :(
Only the drivers in Czech rally championship may be happy, because Kopecky will not win 30 rallies in a row anymore ;)
There are as many as 19 WRC2 crews on the entry list of Rally Catalunya. As most top drivers have already competed in 5 or 6 rounds this event may decide about this year's WRC2 champion:
http://www.rallyracc.com/2019/descargas/inscritos.pdf
Also point-wise, Loubet, Guerra, Kajetanowicz and Gryazin are relatively equal. Mathematically, even Bulacia could still win the title. He would also still have the option to go to Australia for some easy points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
When the FIA announced last week that WRC2 would be for manufacturer ‘and private’ teams I thought this news might be coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I guess Kopecky will retire too.
End of a very successful era for Skoda Motorsport. Hopefully this is not the end of their time in rallying.
Not decided before we see Australia entrylist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Loubet, Guerra, Bulacia and Andolfi can count Australia if they want.
For Gryazin and Kajetanowicz Catalonia is last chance.
That means Loubet is the only one who can win it before Australia entrylist and thatīs not going to happen. He must be minimum 2nd and others canīt score nothing, otherwise point diference is less than 25points after Catalonia.
#WRC2 #testday 2019 @MSportLtd
Another video @mattyjim1 @stu_loudon in Ford Fiesta R5 MKII
https://twitter.com/R3Access/status/1182037946616168448
A shame :(Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Is that site a credible source? Anyway, if true that's a shame; is there any hope this could mean a move to RC1 having 2022 Hybrids in mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Well, I write route previews for them and thus know the people who write there. It says "according to the information we have received" which is always worth a doubt, but then again some say this decision has been known for months already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
I also thought that it could mean a switchover to hybrids, but then again, maybe the can sell as much R5 cars as they can build without a team for marketing
Is it? They were the only factory team in WRC2.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
They still sell their cars, so actually no harm done.
They achieve everything that could have been achieved on that stage, so why bother doing that. But they was one of two only manufacturers that provide some youngsters to progress to the top line. Without them M-Sport is the only one doing that job now after that.
While many of manufacturers is loud about ne technology and ho they want to implement them I don't know why are most of them leave now in many disciplines.
Dakar - Peugeot
WorldRX - Peugeot, VW, Ford
WRC2 - Skoda
WRC VW, strong rumors about Citroen being next one.
But on the other side Subaru & Mitsubishi are (at least what I heard) looking again at rallying. I don't know what that mean - is it WRC or just building machines for customers for nationals.
The situation will get worse with the time.
Political and social pressure makes the manufacturers to invest into EV and other so called green technologies.
The so called green technologies can not be effectively promoted by motorsport of any kind because people willing to buy EV mostly see motorsport as something fundamentally wrong.
It is near impossible to make the fans of traditional motorsport follow alternative means of motorsport, i.e. with EVs, while the others are not interested in any sort of racing at all.
Another ongoing trend of higher and higher automation of driving also points to a situation when motorsport is going to be a redundant thing for marketing of mainstream manufacturers (even without EVs).
All in all it means that rally, racing or other performance-based competitions are virtually dead as marketing tool for the future.
I’m not that pessimistic, but I’m ashamed of FIA behaviour; instead of fighting some of the green mobility BS, like EV’s ecological issues, Mr. Todt and Co. seem eager to follow the mainstream political correctness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
If you think that the best way to ensure future of motorsport is to fight against EV ecolological issues then you have a real problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Instead they should actively promote motorsport as an arena to show that
a) EV can be "fun/entertaining" even for petrolheads. Quote from Top Gear test of Tesla Roadster quite many years ago: "The first electric car that you actually want to buy".
(for the deniers, yes EVs can be fun/entertaining, just depends on the design, only real issue is sound, which can be added artifically. Then again rally car on a gravel stage does make quite many sounds even without engine, same on tarmac at anything over 90 kph)
b) motorsport can be used by manus to showcase how good they are at hybrid/ev development
(Tesla and quite a lot of others are guite keen to show off 0-100 times, nurburgring times etc, so no it's not true that people that buy EVs see motorsport as something fundamentally wrong. In fact most Tesla buyers come from previous BMW owners)
I don't think FIA really has any alternative there. Sadly, motorsport in this current scale will quite possibly be dead anyway in not that distant future from now (I am talking decades rather than years), no matter what the FIA does. But if they didn't take this "political correct" route now in the current climates that we live in, both global and political, then the end will only end up coming a lot sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Let's not lie to ourselves. Racing EVs are fun to drive, not fun to spectate and the main problem is that you simply can not divert the current motorsport audience to EVs because large majority of it either outright refuse them or considers them to be the most boring thing on Earth. The other part of the public, let's say potential audience is not interested in any form of automotive competition at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Racing EVs can be fun to spectate, even more so than petrol cars in slow corners. It's all down to design choices, the only real issue is sound as mentioned many times. Not like we haven't seen that before with "silent" N4 evos.
If by "current motorsport audience" you mean european men of 50+ age then that is true to some degree. But only some, as mentioned quite a large part of people buying Tesla 3 are previous BMW 3-series owners. Which is a typical "cheap" motorhead car. Even in CZ with almost no electric cars you got people actually attending the EV "rally" (with normal EV cars) for "motorsport" competition. That doesn't fit your narrative of people that buy electric not being interested in automotive competition.
But it's the boys of 10-15 or even less you should look for real future. And those often already look at petrol car as something that is too slow and unnecessary complicated. "Why drive this petrol car when that Tesla/Porsche Taycan/Rimac etc. is faster?" That's like using dial-up internet instead of fiber broadband because you like the modem-connecting sound. The same kind of boys that buy an electric drone and go racing with it, rather than making rc plane with petrol engine from scratch.
This is the kind of trends you start seeing when there actually are many electric cars around. (here for last 3 months over 50% of new car sales are electric).
Sorry, but no.
The aim of the motorsport is to go as fast as possible and one of the advantages of EVs is that you have a perfect chance to regulate the torque and its split on the wheels, i.e. it's much easier to have perfect traction with EV than with the combustion car (especially with purely mechanical one). Making them more spectacular means making them artifficially slower. Nobody would ever opt for that willingly.
I have been attending electric races for some time and I know people involved in design of such cars. My conclusion based on long term observation is that EV setting faster times than combustion car still looks and sounds as entertaining as a trolleybus.
EV sales have nearly nothing to do with motorsport. The people who buy EVs don't buy them becuase of Formula E or whatever electric series. Also very large part of these sales is purely becuase of government policy and subsidies.
Please don't even start about EV rally here in CZ. It's better to speak from perpective of other countries because here the rally audience is nearly 100% hostile to EV. Maybe if You come and see You wound not start with it...
You just took everything backwards just like before.
Racing cars being "artifically" slower is the standard of all motorsport for quite a few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
WRC cars could have 3 active difs, fully active suspension (like F1 as far back as in 1992-3), fan-assited active aero, various traction and stability control and no restrictors...quite a lot of this is now standard on even mid-price range cars, not to mention sports cars.
Yet rally cars don't have it (yes a lot of that is due to "costs") and are artifically slower and at the same time more "spectacular". Same kind of balancing has to be done for electric racing cars.
Here you completely misunderstood me on the main point:Quote:
EV sales have nearly nothing to do with motorsport. The people who buy EVs don't buy them becuase of Formula E or whatever electric series. Also very large part of these sales is purely becuase of government policy and subsidies.
When majority of the population buys electric cars (as it does now in Norway), the proportion of the owners interested in automotive racing is about the same as with petrol cars.
(that right now EVs are competetive on the market mostly due to subsidies and/or restrictions is not the topic here, the topic is what happens when they are sold to the masses)
It's not like those 5-10% of "car enthusiasts" suddenly disappear. Similarly small boys still play with cars and still watch (animated) races on children shows.
On a side note, quite a lot of people actually do buy EV cars because of their performance (acceleration) even when they are more expensive.
I have followed what happened on Bohemia rally very closely. My point from that, which you again completely missed, is that those people driving the "EV Rally" certainly were interested in "automotive competition" something you declared impossible among EV buyers, and they are interested in that in just about the most anti-EV country in Europe.Quote:
Please don't even start about EV rally here in CZ. It's better to speak from perpective of other countries because here the rally audience is nearly 100% hostile to EV. Maybe if You come and see You wound not start with it...
The rally Bohemia affair also illustrates my first point. Off course consumer EVs straight from the store are hardly spectacular to watch, just like stock petrol (non-sports) cars are.
Fully active WRC cars with fully active suspension is still waaaaay more spectacular than a very rough EV.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
They don't disappear but they having EV doesn't mean they want to watch it in rally. That is completely different thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
My company sent two crews in the EV rally last year (part of Barum) just because it's politically correct to show something green. We have nearly 5000 employees here in CZ yet it was very difficult to find someone who would actually want to go there and drive. Guess what happened this year? We sent no-one because nobody was intrested to drive it even when it was fully paid by the company. This is how it is being seen here. It's by far majority just a politically motivated activities of global companies what is behind this and not the public interest which is close to zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
You're being foolish calling deniers to those who question EV's pollution issues: EV's issues are real, as are those raised by many of the alleged eco friendly policies; without openly talk about them we'll never get a better environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Btw, we're starting to live in a sort of green tyranny where everyone is forced to endorse deceiving policies that won't do nothing rather than relief, for a limited time, the pressure of a public opinion heavily manipulated by eco fundamentalists.
We should be smarter than that.
S K O D A is P R O Champion 2019
Their lead is 53 points
and MSport can score max 25 points (they have only 1 car in Catalonia and 0 in Australia)
So the entry list for Australia is now published and Loubet, Guerra, Bulacia and Andolfi are present there:Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
https://rallyaustralia.com.au/wp-con...approved-1.pdf
I think that Loubet is in the best situation to win this championship:
https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/results...37-256---.html
Heard today that Veiby is ready for a factoryseat next year, what can it be?
Not koda i presume:)
Hyundai or citröen maybe, or some semi-factory VW team? Together with Solberg and Kristofferson?
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Who means he is "ready" ? Doesn't mean much if only he or his father means it and nobody wants to pay.
Tidemand has been "ready" for WRC for last 3 years...
I understanded that it is a closed deal, but "forgot" to ask about more details.
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I can see VW entering now when their biggest and only rival is probably out. I say easy win and cowardly if that really happens. But it is necessary to have works teams in that class too.
Yeah. Should be VW. But what about Toyota R5? Will they do WRC2 too? What do you say, Paavo?
Really? How come? Is it not required to have any achievements in this sport first?Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Really? Why? To ruin the competition?Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
There are no works teams in WRC2 this year and the competition is better than ever. With just 2 rounds to go there are 6 drivers with a chance for the title:
https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/results...37-256---.html
Agreed. I think WRC2 Pro has been a definite success at the thing it was meant to do: stopping the factory teams stomping the privateers in WRC2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
However, it has been a failure at creating a between-WRC-and-WRC2 championship worth following.
Why to have factory teams at WRC2? Because they pay salary to young drivers.
Do they?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
M-Sport ?Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
The WRC2 Pro was organized to milk money from Škoda. What if Škoda won't stand in the same river twice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte66
I heard it was Hrabanek's idea in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek