We "hear " a lot of things too.
Put up some links,otherwise its just unfounded rumors trying to denigrate the series.
We'll wait.
dr, jack.
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We "hear " a lot of things too.
Put up some links,otherwise its just unfounded rumors trying to denigrate the series.
We'll wait.
dr, jack.
I suspect they are paying what's agreed to. They obviously have a contract and want to be in CC.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaimWitz
It's right there in the financials of CC,which you are not privey to.Quote:
The point of this thread is what happens next isn't it? Money seems to have a lot to do with that doesn't it?
So show me the money!
Where is all this income coming from to put the series 'in the black" as the owners of OWRS claim?
Please provide a link, you couldn't be more wrong.Quote:
Promoters? That seems to be what they would have us all believe. Well, scratch China and Phoenix. I hear talk that Vegas and other North American promoters are balking at paying what is asked too because ChampCar has not been delivering what they promised. The rumor is out there that the Vegas GP is being shopped ... but so far no takers. I also hear that Vegas, Houston, Cleveland, San Jose, St. Jovite and, Edmonton all lost serious dollars in 2007.
in your opinion, I think he/you are wrong.Quote:
Dr Jack nailed the reason: There is simply no economy in Champ Car.
huh?Quote:
It is obvious that Sanquin is fanatically invested in being right about ChampCar and he is one of the 'Internet Operatives" that the owners confide in and ask to defend against those who doubt. Just look at the sheer number of posts he has in only nine days under his current screen name.
you guessed wrong.how would you know what Trust thinks? reaching.Quote:
One thing that has happened next is that the latest, greatest new European sponsor AKA Trust has now gone to GP2. I guess they didn't trust ChampCar to deliver on the promises made or the found more value in the stability and comparative legitimacy of GP2 which soon gets a faster and sexier new car along with a direct linkage to F1 which is where most of the sponsors that the Kalkhoven and Co. are now targeting really want to be.
Trust may or may not have a team in CC, but will probably be a sponsor.
I'm not sure it hurts CC, I know what's wrong in IRL, but I'm not talking about it. ;)Quote:
Then there is the coming defection of Dario Franchiiti and Sam Hornish to NASCAR... that is also about money. Losing both hurts all of open wheel racing in the USA. Until there is one series, this sort of thing will continue to happen.
Is Jim Cox divulging CC financials to you? Were you with KPLJ Ventures?Quote:
Originally Posted by heelntoe
As a matter of fact, Jim Cox, who is KK's right arm and works for a little company called Ernst, helped prepare and oversaw the due diligence book for the acquisition of CART for people like ME!!! JC prepares checks for and even helps decide how much of his clients money goes to an untold number of payees. JC knows more about the CURRENT day-to-day financial health of CCWS than anyone, even more than at least one of the Amigos :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguin
I have no further interest in playing into your nonsense and frankly, your constant comparison to the IRL only hurts CCWS as it forces more to look closer to the actual business operations of the two series and in that respect, there is no comparison.
Oh, and IMG has no interest in repping CCWS as I just left the guys that would be responsible for working on such an account. Laughable was the quote I got and after sitting watching a sport where attendance is irrefutable, sponsors are endless and the product is as exciting as any sport could be, I understand why. Sanguin, if you want to actually do something good for CCWS, do like Gary and Jimispeed, initiate constructive ideas for what might fix the problems...of which there are many!
ditto to you too. I stand by what I said about CC. If Jim Cox is telling you things, that is a matter for the owners to handle. Especially you posting numbers that are supposed to be private.Quote:
Originally Posted by heelntoe
I never said anything about IMG. Sounds like you're into nascar.good luck with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguin
For someone who continues to challenge folks to prove what they say you sure as hell like to play it fast and loose don't you? Ok, put up or shut up. What PROOF do you have to back that up? I hope it is true, I'd like nothing better. But I've sat by for over a week watching the damage YOU have been doing. "The damage", you ask? Yes the damage. No matter what anyone says that may be in the slightest way deemed derogatory by you, (even if it is said by someone know to be a real OWRS supporter, by the folks who have been here a very long time) you attack it or make up some STUPID comment like the one above. You are giving OWRS fans a bad name by your continuous illogical comments. But then again maybe thats your intent, who knows, who cares.
So time's up. Time for YOU to be called out in the same way you call out others. Where's YOUR damn proof? No sliding off on to some side arguement, no dismissing me as an IRL supporter (my hatred for the series is legend here). Let's focus purely and simply on this comment you made. Where is the link, quote any manner of proof you'd like to provide will suffice.
I would love to know they are in the black, nothing would make me happier.
Gary
Sanguin, thank you for thinking of me as being one in the same with the good Dr. I'll take that as a compliment. I also want to give a shout out to Heelntoe for stating the obvious in his most recent post: Comparison of the two open wheel series on a business level really is illuminating in a very unfortuante way for OWRS. Despite this, the IRL lads seem to be suffering a spot of bother this week with the prospect of losing not one but two of their most recent champions. A third champ would have left if Dan Wheldon could have talked Chippy into giving him a NASCAR seat.
If one looks at the open wheel champions on both side of the split since 1995 the picture is not encouraging:
CART/ChampCar:
1995 Champ: J. Villeneuve, 1997 F1 Champ now in NASCAR Trucks;
1996 Champ: J. Vasser, Semi retired and now a team owner in Champ Car;
1997-1998 Champ: A. Zanardi (thankfully alive) racing in Touring Cars;
1999 Champ: Juan Pablo Montoya; 2000 Indy 500 winner now racing in NASCAR Nextel Cup;
2000-2001 Champ: G. DeFerran, 2003 Indy 500 Champ, retired;
2002 Champ: C. DaMatta, sidelined by Champ Car accident
2003 Champ: P. Tracy still racing in Champ Cars;
2004-2007 Champ: S. Bourdais, headed to F1 in third tier team
Champions still active as Champ Car drivers: 1 - Paul Tracy
IRL IndyCar Series:
1996 IRL Co-Champs: S. Sharp still racing in IRL, B Clakins, who knows?
1997 Champ: T. Stewart, 2 time Nextel Cup Champ racing in NASCAR
1998 Champ: K. Brack, 1999 Indy 500 winner, retired
1999 Champ: G. Ray, retired due to lack of interest by teams
2000 Champ: B. Lazier, semi retired due to lack of interest by teams
2001, 2002 and 2006 Champ: S. Hornish, 2006 Indy 500 winner is probably NASCAR Sprint Cup bound in 2008.
2003 Champ: S. Dixon, still racing in the Indy Car Series
2004 Champ: T. Kannan, still racing in the Indy Car Series
2005 Champ: D. Wheldon, still racing in the Indy Car Series but wishes he was in NASCAR.
2007 Champ: D. Franchitti, 2007 Indy 500 winner is probably NASCAR Sprint Cup bound in 2008.
Champions still active as Indy Car drivers (as of this writing): 4.5 - Scott, Sharp (.5) ; Sam Hornish (3); Scott Dixon; Tony Kannan, Dario Franchitti.
Within a week this could be down to 2.5 champions left in the Indy Car series plus one two time Indy 500 winner who can't seem to win a championship.
This situation is really hard to overcome and it has everything to do with money. One fair sized NASCAR car team has twice the overall economy of the entire ChampCar World Series. The biggest NASCAR teams have more dollars and sponsors than the entire Indy Car Series. Meanwhile, people like Sanguin try to convice us that ChampCar is somehow making a profit and all is rosy with the promoters and the teams. Can you sell me some more Enron shares please?
Sure, It's my opinion ,just like others with no links. It's my opinion from people I know and from what I've "heard". Happy? I said you don't have to believe it, take it for what it is.I don't have to believe anyone else who doesn't have proof either no matter how posts they have.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
As far as damaging anything ,that's YOUR opinion.I think unfound rumors are much more damamging and are being used to denigrate the series.That's MY opinion.
I rather talk about CC and racing than other posters.
Looking forward to Surfer's ,did you see my news thread?
Lexmark Indy had their kickoff.
See you in 2008!
Unfounded rumors have a name here: Sanguin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguin
As expected a duck and weave. Nope it won't fly. Show me where in your original message that you indicated this was your opinion. Nope, you stated it as if it were a fact. There was no "I think" or "in my opinion" there was there? Now for a quick lesson in linguistics, without such a disclaimer the statement is considered to be a factual expression.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguin
Further the question at hand is not about OTHERS with no links. This is about YOUR statement (not opinion, a statement) about the series being in the black. A statement with nothing to back it up. A statement that when called out now becomes an opinion.
It is just this sort of illogical ramblings that is what I was talking about when I said you are doing damage. And yes that is my opinion, further it is my opinion that such behavior IS much more detrimental than the obvious unfounded rumors. You make fans of OWRS appear to be a bunch of fools.
Gary