4 degrees of camber

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Bridgestone had never seen the newly recut surface either although their US subsiduary Firestone had raced there a few weeks before. Its unlikely that Bridgestone were able to knock together a new tyre structure and compound in the little time they had available, I think their tyres were just more conservatively designed.

Michelin weren't allowed to bring new tyres because the teams according to the regulations had to select tyre type by Saturday morning and were only allowed a choice of two compounds, not three. Also its debatable whether Michelin would have been able to bring across the huge quantity of tyres required in time, or even had the stock available.

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It's not silly to assume because MIchelin offered, that they could have supplied enough tyres in time.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

It's not silly to assume because MIchelin offered, that they could have supplied enough tyres in time.

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They could have offered whatever they wanted knowing that it was too late to bring them over and that they wouldn't have been accepted anyway.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

They could have offered whatever they wanted knowing that it was too late to bring them over and that they wouldn't have been accepted anyway.

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Tis a possibility!

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Bridgestone had never seen the newly recut surface either although their US subsidiary Firestone had raced there a few weeks before. Its unlikely that Bridgestone were able to knock together a new tyre structure and compound in the little time they had available, I think their tyres were just more conservatively designed.

Michelin weren't allowed to bring new tyres because the teams according to the regulations had to select tyre type by Saturday morning and were only allowed a choice of two compounds, not three. Also its debatable whether Michelin would have been able to bring across the huge quantity of tyres required in time, or even had the stock available.

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Firestone had supplied a high speed single seater series which raced on the surface. It is undoubtable that they would have supplied information to their parent company which then made a decision on which tyres to supply.

As for whether Michelin would be able to supply replacement tyres, we only have their word on that but I see little reason to doubt them. We had a similar issue at Spa when RBR were complaining that the Pirelli's were failing and Pirelli offered to the FIA to fly overnight replacements for the whole field until it transpired that RBR were operating the tyres outside of recommended parameters.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Firestone had supplied a high speed single seater series which raced on the surface. It is undoubtable that they would have supplied information to their parent company which then made a decision on which tyres to supply.

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Probably but not necessarily. You're assuming that inter-departmental communications within Bridgestone were fine. That isn't/wasn't necessarily the case.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

As for whether Michelin would be able to supply replacement tyres, we only have their word on that but I see little reason to doubt them. We had a similar issue at Spa when RBR were complaining that the Pirelli's were failing and Pirelli offered to the FIA to fly overnight replacements for the whole field until it transpired that RBR were operating the tyres outside of recommended parameters.

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Pirelli offered to supply 10 extra pairs of front tyres, thats 20 tyres so the top 10 could replace theirs. They had to ship 17 tyres from Britain to Belgium.

Michelin would have had to ship 7 teams' worth of tyres, enough to last them through the whole raceday and bring them from France to Indianapolis overnight, and even then they didn't know how long the harder compound tyres would last for so wouldn't have known how many would have been enough. Thats over ten times more tyres over a much greater distance than Pirelli had to deal with.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

There are some comparisons to be made with the Indy GP fiasco. I know the problem then was the tyres themselves, not the use of them by the teams, but Michelin made suggestions as to how the tyres could be made to last and so actually race. In this case the FIA rejected those suggestions and a race of sorts could go ahead because there was another tyre supplier in F1.

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Not really.

Michelin could not give assurance to all their teams, whereas at RBR were desperate to find the limit and seemed like they found it.

The 1997 Spanish GP is up on YT. All the Goodyear shod cars suffered blistering but the tyres held up.

A better example would have been 2008 Brickyard 400 where the NASCAR was regarded as a massive fail in that Goodyear's tyres struggled to go over 10 laps. Thankfully this scenario wasn't replicated at Spa this year.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Now, there is no alternative. The FIA wanted a single tyre supplier (the motivation for the treatment of Michelin) so that it could use the tyres as a means to slow speeds and 'spice up the show'.

It's an example of the way the FIA regulates almost every aspect of the cars, to the extent that teams and designers have a very small window for development and innovation.

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Don't agree with this at all. In fact I find it rather daft. Regardless of the rules racecar engineering is about maximising what's available.

If it isn't complex diffusers then then its trick exhaust diffusers and following years the geeks will claw back more DF in some way.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

If the teams are going beyond the limits of the tyres, against all the advice of Pirelli, then the FIA see it as their job to step in.

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This I do agree with. The nannying and try to pre-empt incidents. Aggressive racing is fine their books and yet for wet races it seems we have to wait for an indication of a dry/racing line before the SC is released.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Probably but not necessarily. You're assuming that inter-departmental communications within Bridgestone were fine. That isn't/wasn't necessarily the case.



Pirelli offered to supply 10 extra pairs of front tyres, thats 20 tyres so the top 10 could replace theirs. They had to ship 17 tyres from Britain to Belgium.

Michelin would have had to ship 7 teams' worth of tyres, enough to last them through the whole raceday and bring them from France to Indianapolis overnight, and even then they didn't know how long the harder compound tyres would last for so wouldn't have known how many would have been enough. Thats over ten times more tyres over a much greater distance than Pirelli had to deal with.

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We're getting way past what information is available or even logical.

There is no evidence that I know of that there was a communications breakdown between Firestone and their parent company and logistically, getting the tyres across the Atlantic would be a piece of cake. They could be flown in a Michelin Corporate Jet over to Indy and the airport is a few miles from the circuit.

Anyway, it's history and can't be proved :)

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Originally Posted by ioan

Thus spake the keyboard jokey from his screen! :rotflmao:

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LOL I missed this one ioan.

I've met dozens of people off this forum over the years and I think they will confirm I'm hardly a shrinking violet that would hide behind a screen :D

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

We're getting way past what information is available or even logical.

There is no evidence that I know of that there was a communications breakdown between Firestone and their parent company and logistically, getting the tyres across the Atlantic would be a piece of cake. They could be flown in a Michelin Corporate Jet over to Indy and the airport is a few miles from the circuit.

Anyway, it's history and can't be proved :)

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Michelin only had the Barcelona-spec tire available , and could not guarantee they would work any better .
They had at least eight tires that failed or were close to failing , across a number of teams .

And , Jarno took pole on fumes , as Toyota clearly saw they would never be allowed to start the race at all .

The weather that weekend wasn't hot , either , with the temps in the 70F range .

Michael won , for the first time that year .

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Michelin weren't allowed to bring new tyres because the teams according to the regulations had to select tyre type by Saturday morning and were only allowed a choice of two compounds, not three. Also its debatable whether Michelin would have been able to bring across the huge quantity of tyres required in time, or even had the stock available.

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Exactly.
It takes some time to produce a minimum of 14 x 3 sets of F1 tires (168 tires) and have them delivered from France to the US. The tires available were not adapted either to the track. Not to mention that they would have had to race with a tire that was not tested on that track.

Michelin claimed they could bring in other tires knowing full well that the FIA wouldn't allow for those to be used. It was a good move for them to be seen in a somewhat positive light in that mess and throw the responsibility on the FIA's shoulders.