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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Congratulations to Ogier for the win of this great rally and of course for his dominant championship :)
Excellent rally by Dani and a great surprise by Jari-Matti! Very good Neuville, really a shame for his error...
Novikov slightly better than the last rallies, but still... Mikko and Mads no comment.
Though I see as always people trying to minimize Mr Loeb, searching every possible excuse... the funniest and most ridicolous one "he was afraid of Ogier, he's a coward" :D why of course! After 9 championships he was so afraid to lose one that he ran away... I don't even know how you can think those things.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
I think it is clear to see why Loeb retired at the end of last season. He knew that the time of easy victories, against almost no competition, was at an end.
It s a bit harsh no ? :) 1m39 on ogier and 3m49 on third place at M.Carlo . Second at Sweden rally, one of his best result on this one.
55s on ogier and 2mn on third at argentina rally. That s not so bad to say the least. And i m close to beleive that without his wrong tires choice , it would have been again a not so stressful win for him on this rally.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
don't even know how you can think those things.
this happens only when he dont take his Loebphobia pills.Dont worry.
nice video
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15mml ... ?start=404
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAS007
I think it is clear to see why Loeb retired at the end of last season. He knew that the time of easy victories, against almost no competition, was at an end.
It s a bit harsh no ? :) 1m39 on ogier and 3m49 on third place at M.Carlo . Second at Sweden rally, one of his best result on this one.
55s on ogier and 2mn on third at argentina rally. That s not so bad to say the least. And i m close to beleive that without his wrong tires choice , it would have been again a not so stressful win for him on this rally.
no Loeb was scared and go away.But he thought again and came back and won 2 out of 4 rallies with difference measured in minutes.Was so scared.... :laugh:
nice photos
http://rhphotograph.free.fr/rallye-spor ... rance.html
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kielder
I haven't now enough time to give my impressions about the event, but I can say that my biggest memory of it will be shaking the hand which shields the driver's eyes from the sun on Hill Climb :) .
Ari?
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kielder
my biggest memory of it will be shaking the hand which shields the driver's eyes from the sun on Hill Climb :) .
Vatanen?
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kielder
I haven't now enough time to give my impressions about the event, but I can say that my biggest memory of it will be shaking the hand which shields the driver's eyes from the sun on Hill Climb :) .
waiting for your review mate!
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxOxT
that different era different circumnstances i do not agree with... the sport is the same, i see no reason why someone would not dominate in the 70s 80s 90s like Loeb did in the 00s
What you forget is the reliability of the cars today. Much more rallies back in the days depended on the technical material. If you were unlucky it was the car that broke down and made the driver not winning. With todays reliabiltiy of cars in the 80īs and 90īs there could have been certain drivers which could have dominated more.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxOxT
that different era different circumnstances i do not agree with... the sport is the same, i see no reason why someone would not dominate in the 70s 80s 90s like Loeb did in the 00s
What you forget is the reliability of the cars today. Much more rallies back in the days depended on the technical material. If you were unlucky it was the car that broke down and made the driver not winning. With todays reliabiltiy of cars in the 80īs and 90īs there could have been certain drivers which could have dominated more.
That's fine, but I remember one statement of Malcolm Wilson - "Colin knew the wekanesses of the car and tried to avoid it" (or something like that).
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
what is this, and where?
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
what is this, and where?
Isn't it obvious?
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
what is this, and where?
Isn't it obvious?
If you incidentally see the Bulgarian flag in the public, you must know we are big Loeb fans :D
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
... loeb is one coward...
Only a wanna-be-low creature can make up such a statement.
2004... 2005... 2006... 2007... 2008... 2009... 2010... 2011... 2012...
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxOxT
that different era different circumnstances i do not agree with... the sport is the same, i see no reason why someone would not dominate in the 70s 80s 90s like Loeb did in the 00s
What you forget is the reliability of the cars today. Much more rallies back in the days depended on the technical material. If you were unlucky it was the car that broke down and made the driver not winning. With todays reliabiltiy of cars in the 80īs and 90īs there could have been certain drivers which could have dominated more.
Also, the events were much more diverse - some of them were so long, that the question wasn't if, but when your car will have a technical issue. Loeb has won 46% of the rallies he contested. Drivers of yesteryear would hope to actually finish half of the rallies they started. Additionally, the drivers/teams were not obliged to start every single WRC round.
If Loeb was born twenty years later (and granted that he would made it to the WRC), he still would snatch multiple championships, but he wouldn't be able to win 78 rallies "for sureŪ".
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
2004... 2005... 2006... 2007... 2008... 2009... 2010... 2011... 2012...
+
4-four-time Alsatian champion, once champion of the French Grand East, and fifth in the French championship as a gymnast
= Best Ever MASTER!!!
They all have 9-nine! years to reach The Master.
No more, no less!!!
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
I really can't believe some of the anti-Loeb comments I am reading here. What would his career have to look like in order to "mute" some people? Did he have to win 500 rallies and keep winning until he was 65? The man was simply perfect, whether you want to admit it or not. He dominated on every surface on multiple occasions. He was, is and will continue to be a great ambassador for Citroen. What arguments can these people even offer? His fear of Ogier led him into retirement? 2 wins out of 4 rallies for fun, with the other two being a 2nd and a crash while going for the victory on his last rally- I would rather say he made fun of Ogier this year, not to mention others. He always had a super jet-powered car in his career? Just look at the results of Citroen this year. If I am not mistaken, Hirvonen has said he suffers much with Loeb's absense since he doesn't work with him on set up anymore- anyone with any kind of motorsport experience will know to appreciate how much this says about Loeb. Simply compare 2012 Mikko with 2013 Mikko. As someone noted, he sent a whole generation of rally legends (who were our idols) into retirement by beating all of them and destroyed the careers of an entire following generation, leaving them to fight for 2nd. I don't think much more needs to be said about the greatest rally driver of all time. I am happy to have followed rallying in his era :)
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000
The man was simply perfect, whether you want to admit it or not. He dominated on every surface on multiple occasions. He was, is and will continue to be a great ambassador for Citroen.
He's not the Messiah ... but he has been the dominant driver of this generation and sublime to watch when at the top of his game.
But not 'perfect'. While never stooping to the sort of behaviour that prevents Michael Schumacher being regarded as 'perfect', Loeb did benefit from the preferred status on occasions when team mates were quicker as Sordo was in Spain 2009. A fair fight to the finish in 2011 might have left Citroen with a WRC future right now, even if it meant that Loeb had ended with 7 or 8 titles.
I wish him every success in WTCC and count it one of the great sporting moments to have seen him on the stages in the past 6 years I've been following rallying again.
Just to clear up a point about age - if Loeb still had the desire to compete I'm sure he could. Fangio only won the first of his 5 world championships at age 40 in an era when GP was more physically demanding than modern WRC.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000
I would rather say he made fun of Ogier this year, not to mention others.
No, this has never been Loeb's ambition, and rather he didn't achieve such thing.
EDIT: I don't know if you noticed, but he was the first one to congratulate Ogier for the title ;)
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000
Just to clear up a point about age - if Loeb still had the desire to compete I'm sure he could. Fangio only won the first of his 5 world championships at age 40 in an era when GP was more physically demanding than modern WRC.
LOL... Goodnight.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
great drive by Ogier this rally and congrats on his title
dani sordo drove a good rally too
JML did well to keep it together and drove well in this rally...i hope he can repeat this in the future in more rallies
Neuville, this guy has some great potential and is really coming into his own, i hope he continues to work on his driving. next year he can do great things once he stays focused
Loeb and Elena, wow what a team over the years, i'm so glad to have been able to watch them. i'm a little disappointed he rolled out in this rally, but honestly he's has done so much in his WRC career that it makes little difference, and i cant fault him for trying to win in such a close battle. i'm a long time fan and i wish him all the best in his future endeavors. i applaud Elena too, cause i know sometimes co-drivers get left out, and he was their throughout. great memories
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
I have seen about 35 times some WRC rally and about 150 times some national rally. This time, in rally Alsace, is the only time I wanted to leave before it ended. The spectacle was so bad that, if Alsace was not so nice as a place, I would have cried about the money I spent. The marshals and the policemen gathered all spectators in crowded areas where you could see only boring turns of 2nd or 3rd gear. The modern WRC cars with the modern tyres turn on wet tarmac like F1, and if this continues like this I doubt that there will be spectators in the future. Spectators were less than all other WRC rallies I have been in Europe (Spain, Germany, Italy and Alsace 2011) and, most important, not even one of them seemed interested, not to mention enthused, about what he saw. Except of some 2WD cars, like Gilbert, Chardonnet, Suarez, Lemes and some young guys in Twingos, there was absolutely no spectacle worthy a penny.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
driving styles have changed so much over the years now you don't see cars sliding or pendulums and etc.
spectators want to see car's sliding and jumping on the stages, so FIA should re-think all again now cars prepared by VW, M-SPORT, CITROEN & Hyundai (soon) they all are so so similar in characteristics so FIA should open regulations a bit more so that there is variation all around.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxOxT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000
Just to clear up a point about age - if Loeb still had the desire to compete I'm sure he could. Fangio only won the first of his 5 world championships at age 40 in an era when GP was more physically demanding than modern WRC.
LOL... Goodnight.
Watch how you quote, I didn't say that :)
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by scn
I have seen about 35 times some WRC rally and about 150 times some national rally. This time, in rally Alsace, is the only time I wanted to leave before it ended. The spectacle was so bad that, if Alsace was not so nice as a place, I would have cried about the money I spent. The marshals and the policemen gathered all spectators in crowded areas where you could see only boring turns of 2nd or 3rd gear. The modern WRC cars with the modern tyres turn on wet tarmac like F1, and if this continues like this I doubt that there will be spectators in the future. Spectators were less than all other WRC rallies I have been in Europe (Spain, Germany, Italy and Alsace 2011) and, most important, not even one of them seemed interested, not to mention enthused, about what he saw. Except of some 2WD cars, like Gilbert, Chardonnet, Suarez, Lemes and some young guys in Twingos, there was absolutely no spectacle worthy a penny.
I share you view. There are more and more restrictions for spectators justified by "safety" or other nonsens. Zones are set up for organiser convinience with no concern about spectators. Going to some rallies is purely waste of money and after 20-25 cars is nothing to watch, those guys drive like taxi drivers. Just wondering if rally is addressed to spectator anymore, potential customer of many drivers sponsor. I think is getting worse and worse, stages with only 1-2 access roads or even with no access, car parks miles away, town/castle stages, timetable doesn't allow you to see more than 2 stages a day. Not mention about spectators who want to take nice pics, loads of obstacles, tapes, poles, nets and so on.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartek
http://instagram.com/p/fI-TDWFbwt/ Woman in background is Seb wife?
Yes she is.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Oh, come on you French! What are you doing there somewhere in Europe? Way too ultimate fast driving...
Time to drink more Kossu in the korsu, dark age continues in Soviet Finland. Again and again there comes those really fast drivers and makes Finns cry like a baby (some new girly thing?) or do more dark sad stories with national drink and axe. It's hard to be a tonttumies.
Loeb was always too fast for us and now there is that Ogier and more to come...give me back my old Sierra, oh shit that was 80īs flashback.
Lumihanki, poliisi ja viimeinen erhe...oh dear there is no even snow, f**ck!
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Maanteiden kuningas
Oh, come on you French! What are you doing there somewhere in Europe? Way too ultimate fast driving...
Time to drink more Kossu in the korsu, dark age continues in Soviet Finland. Again and again there comes those really fast drivers and makes Finns cry like a baby (some new girly thing?) or do more dark sad stories with national drink and axe. Itīs not easy to be tonttumies.
Loeb was always too fast for us and now there is that Ogier and more to come...give me back my old Sierra, oh shit that was 80īs flashback.
Lumihanki, poliisi ja viimeinen erhe...oh dear there is no even snow, f**ck!
Now that is pure comedy gold - Thank you for the most accurate summary of Rallye France so far :)
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000
Watch how you quote, I didn't say that :)
Indeed you didn't, some people are just too concerned about shooting from the hip to ensure the gun is horizontal first ;)
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfun
I share you view. There are more and more restrictions for spectators justified by "safety" or other nonsens. Zones are set up for organiser convinience with no concern about spectators. Going to some rallies is purely waste of money and after 20-25 cars is nothing to watch, those guys drive like taxi drivers. Just wondering if rally is addressed to spectator anymore, potential customer of many drivers sponsor. I think is getting worse and worse, stages with only 1-2 access roads or even with no access, car parks miles away, town/castle stages, timetable doesn't allow you to see more than 2 stages a day. Not mention about spectators who want to take nice pics, loads of obstacles, tapes, poles, nets and so on.
Around 20 people died last year alone in rallying. Large majority on asphalt. While the development of tyres and suspension which is irreversible makes them looking calmer and cleaner they actually go much faster than in the past. That plays a big role in the number of fatal accidents in recent years - cars behave and look calm and the coming crisis is very hard to estimate, for spectators it is often impossible. That's why they are moved farther from the road. I don't like that either as a spectator but You must understand that large part of spectators don't think about safety at all. Look at this year's WRC Germany. The two hit spectators fortunately survived but judging from the images there were dozens of potential grave situations on every stage. If You think that the sport can afford few dead people from time to time You are welcome to have a look on out national scene where people connected to rallying are now considered public enemies by a reasonable part of population and where some politicians took ban of rallying into their agenda.
Anyway in my opinion the cars look calm and "slow" only in really slow technical places. If You have some sense of speed You must see how crazy fast the cars are in the hi-speed sections. The difference is huge even compared to five years old cars, not speaking about older ones.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Around 20 people died last year alone in rallying. Large majority on asphalt. While the development of tyres and suspension which is irreversible makes them looking calmer and cleaner they actually go much faster than in the past. That plays a big role in the number of fatal accidents in recent years - cars behave and look calm and the coming crisis is very hard to estimate, for spectators it is often impossible. That's why they are moved farther from the road. I don't like that either as a spectator but You must understand that large part of spectators don't think about safety at all. Look at this year's WRC Germany. The two hit spectators fortunately survived but judging from the images there were dozens of potential grave situations on every stage. If You think that the sport can afford few dead people from time to time You are welcome to have a look on out national scene where people connected to rallying are now considered public enemies by a reasonable part of population and where some politicians took ban of rallying into their agenda.
Anyway in my opinion the cars look calm and "slow" only in really slow technical places. If You have some sense of speed You must see how crazy fast the cars are in the hi-speed sections. The difference is huge even compared to five years old cars, not speaking about older ones.
I agree, that's why I consider that we urgently need a change of rules, mostly about the tyres (dimensions, tread pattern, durability etc.) and the general dimensions of WRC cars, especially the width. Cars are extremely fast, but extremely boring to watch on asphalt when it comes to 2nd or 3rd gear corners. In Germany 2012 and Corsica 2011 I managed to go to fast places, where the spectacle was exciting. But there are few such conrners, even fewer with a safe place to sit and almost none that access is allowed by the organizers. Cars must become slower and with more tolerance or even tendency for sliding and driver's error.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
I'm sorry but in my opinion that is impossible. You can't reverse tyre and suspension development. The world moves on and You can not start to produce 20 years old tyre compounds or dampers worse than average stock ones.
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus-denoS2000
Watch how you quote, I didn't say that :)
Indeed you didn't, some people are just too concerned about shooting from the hip to ensure the gun is horizontal first ;)
No actually i hate the new quoting system... i tried to shorten it and it showed like i was quoting you.
sorry Urabus. the LOLZoRzzzzzz were for Mintex...
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
Hello guys, I came back home last night from Strasbourg and still recovering a bit. Here is my summary for the event:
After asking of what to expect from the rally, I was prepared about the spectator zones and control from police/marshals. But I have to say it is more relaxed than what I am used to from Wales GB and you have far more options where to go and where to stand. Although there are crowds everywhere, at least at the places I have been, there is place for everywhere and in all stages I found a place where I liked and I was not behind many people.
This was my first all tarmac event spectating (I also did Cyprus rally 2009 but that was with gravel tyres so doesn't count) and I have to say I am far from impressed with what I watched. The show is not nice whatsoever, the cars are too perfect. Also spotting differences in driving style is far more difficult than in gravel.
My program was the following:
Arrived at Strasbourg about midday on Thursday and went for a trip in service park before going to the Power Stage. The crowds were not as big as I was expecting when I arrived (approx an hour after it started) and although I could find a first row place, I opted to stand after the finish line, where the leading driver parked his car to get a good view of the drivers and cars, since the show in that stage is nothing exciting. Got to say hi to Colin Clark and Neil Cole who were doing the interviews. The only two drivers that I didn't managed to get close look were the two Sebs as they parked far away, but managed to get decent pics as the drove away. Josh Capito was there much earlier, and from what it looked like he was planning the celebrations ahead of Ogier's championship win. Interestingly he was giving instruction to a female photographer (in a very bossy manner) where to stand expecting Ogier to arrived at the finish line. A thing that impressed me the most is that by the time Loeb left, all the crowds started disappearing, not bothering about Seb O...
On Friday I watched SS3 at the mid-point in the forest, in a non designated parking area. I was not so sure if this allowed there (as in GB it is not) and I gambled but it was OK at the end. I was a narrow road, and I watched the exit of a mid-speed right hander leading to a small straight with slight curvature. Keith Cronin span there, but managed to get going in approx 15s.
After that I drove to SS7 through some back road and parked near the start where I walked into the stage for appox 1.5-2km. The spot was in a relatively wide road, med-fast right corner to a straight and then an open uphill hairpin left. Loeb was noticeably later with the brakes in the hairpin.
On Saturday I went to SS8 at the first left hand hairpin, some 200m after the start line. It was drizzling all the time and the road was wet but no standing water. Again the only noticeable difference was with Loeb being more sideways into the hairpin (!!) than anyone else. I left early so that I have time for SS10, but the police blocked the road for 100m as it was used from the drivers to heat the tyres. Some 8-10 cars wanted to do the same and start arguing with the Gendarmerie and they finally let us go after 30min. It was marginal if I had time to reach SS10 early. Finally made it with 30s to spare and watched Thierry from a 'no go' area, which was the highlight of my event, a short straight to a tight turn left. Then gendarmerie told us to move away but still I managed to get in front of all the crowds in the spectator zone. Nothing exciting there either, so I left a bit early after the WRC2 cars passed and went to the start of SS13 and walked for 2km into the stage in the short straight after the second uphill hairpin. Again nothing too exciting in this stage, and no driver making the difference.
The way back to Strasbourg was a nightmare with a lot of traffic in the mountains and stormy weather and fog.Going into the service area, I bumped into Jari-Matti leaving the VW press area and going to the service park. I was walking with him for some 2-3 minutes and interestingly hardly anyone recognized him! (you get the idea what kind of people are watching this rally). The service area in front of VW and Citroen was PACKED, at least 7-8 rows of people in front of cars, so with nothing to see I drove to SS15 to stay for the night.
The heavy rain didn't stop for a minute and they wanted to park our cars in some corn-field (good luck with that! even with walking you bogged down) A lot of cars got stuck but luckily not me. I stood at the left turn after the bridge crossing in Steinseltz. The best viewing point of the turn were block by some stupid advertising banners... so I had to compromise my position but OK. When Sordo arrived and not Jari-Mati I was worried that he did one of his usual, I forgot to look for the start list and see that position were as per SS13 and not SS14. Everyone was very cautious but Ogier was obviously on it and the difference from the rest was so obvious, the time reflected it. When Seb L did not arrive I was very deflated and I lost interest straight away, the rest did not seem to bother too much. Also Ostberg was a bit more aggressive than in other stages.
Being afraid with my nightmare drive back to Strasbourg the night before I left for Strasbourg as my train left a bit early and did not want to miss it. I took the road section leading to Haguenau meeting the rally cars coming the other way, the streets were lined by spectators, amazing atmosphere.
All in all it was an average event from a spectator point of view, I am not sure If I want to watch another all asphalt event in the near future with these cars.
Good to see the Maestro for the last time but I was hoping for that very last fight that didn't come. Seb O is a deserving winner and champion, putting everyone to shame this year. JML was a nice surprise to be on the pace here. Mikko, Novikov and Ostberg are getting worse and worse as the year goes, in my view they do not deserve their places in the official teams. Even Prokop in some stages was driving better than them.
I have lots of pictures to process and I will post again soon, I didn't have a chance to properly look at them yet.
So now bring it on for REAL rallying in the muddy Wales in six weeks! Can't wait for it!
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Re: Rallye France Alsace 2013
The spectacle in modern asphalt events is all about experience. It's really much harder to find nice places but they do exist - it just requires quite a lot of effort or experience to find them. For me it's part of what I love on rallies - to find Your own brilliant spot :)
