Kimi's future - No racing in 2010?

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26th November 2009, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

First of all I'd like to say that its refreshing to have such a level and well reasoned response during a debate. ;)

I'll accept you explanation as I myself was not present during the briefings at Maranello, therefore I cannot comment fully on how hard Kimi tried to get things his way. I can only speculate from what I've read and seen. It's also great to know that such a small snippet of footage containing Kimi eating an ice cream in Malaysia, holds enough water to prove that he lacked motivation when developing the car. In fact I am annoyed that I failed to draw this rather obvious conclusion myself. Its amazing how much information one can learn from the television IMO.

Now thats been answered maybe we can move on and away from the jibes.. :)

Or maybe you can provide some evidence to your claims, since you question the validity of my view.
26th November 2009, 09:33
Dzeidzei

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Or maybe you can provide some evidence to your claims, since you question the validity of my view.

Kimis future surely seems to interest a lot. What I dont get is why people keep bashing him and his attitude while he´s gone from Ferrari? The tifosi have their Spanish wet dream come true, so isnt it time to move on?

Or is the prospect of getting beaten by Kimi in a Mercedes too much a nightmare fro you guys?

Ive said before, but having Kimi in the other Merc car will make 2010 the mother of all seasons. Lets all hope that materialises.
26th November 2009, 11:21
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

So, if it wasn't a lack of motivation, what was it that made Kimi allow such a situation to develop whereby car-changes suited Massa and he needed his manager to help him?

A lack of guts?

I can't imagine Lewis or Fernando being so gutless.

Kimi was paid to be a team leader. To allow his team-mate to dominate the garage, especially when that team-mate is Massa, not exactly the toughest nut, is a dereliction of his contractual obligations. He was lucky to get a pay-off, since I'd have sacked him the day he let Massa get the better of him.

If Ferrari wanted a team leader, they chose the wrong driver. Kimi is an excellent racing driver but he is not interested in doing other people's jobs or kicking them in the but. Over here that kind of behavior is not needed and when Kimi was hired, they had a team leader in Jean Todt. If Häkkinen had gone to Ferrari (at a time where the management wasn't particularly strong or convincing) we would have seen a similar result, since he would not have stepped on other people's toes to get what he wants.
26th November 2009, 11:52
Valve Bounce

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Or maybe you can provide some evidence to your claims, since you question the validity of my view.

I don't understand! :confused: What do you have against ice cream?
26th November 2009, 16:33
jas123f1

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Exactly, I think that rather than trying to accuse Kimi of lacking motivation, we should delve a little deeper and realise it was Ferrari that failed in this instance, not Kimi. The team was built around MS and he is excellent at driving the team forward in a fashion that Ferrari were missing for two decades. Luca decided that he didn't want to pay an older driver a huge champions salary especially as he had been beaten the previous season by Alonso. This was where they went wrong IMO. Luca wanted a new era of success and he chose Raikkonen as a tool to get MS to make a decison on his future. It was stay and drive alongside Raikkonen or go. Relationships broke down between Luca and Todt over driver choice and sponsorship, and we are left with the buck passing we have today.

Kimi is an excellent driver, but he's no team leader as DexDexter said above.. :)

But same time Schumacher hade very good relation to Felipe and liked to see him as champion – and his good relation to the team made that Felipe become in reality as a first driver in the team - with help with his “Big brother” Schumi as advisor.
So Felipe hade his chance both 2007 and 2008, 2007 he was unlucky and the team decided to go for Kimi in a situation there it in reality was very difficult (almost impossible) to win the title anymore. But despite that Kimi become the World Champion 2007 after a super driving and whole team behind him.. even Felipe helped him in that ..

Also 2008 the car was fitted to Felipe and it was only because Kimis all-round talent which made it more equal for them – Kimi hade a “Ruben’s job” – to help Felipe to get the title.. and he did it .. 2009 the same Felipe was the first driver, but the construction of the car was not good enough to win the title – but even 2009 it was clearly show able that after Felipes accident the team gave Kimi full support and the results were much better .. in that car I would say SUPER .. Fisi understood it in fully first when was driving it..

Now Ferrari get “Santander money” to pay out their latest champion from F1 – but after al I’m not that much surprised that Kimi let them do it .. He has his title (despite he wasn’t the first driver) and to work in the team which doesn’t want him .. 17 million dollar is much money … to do NOT WORK.. and Kimi can always do something other.. Rally is one possibility..

Bur for me, newer more Ferrari ..
- I have seen too much.. All b*** s*** , whoi can forget what they did against Rubens, when Schumacher used even his talent to win his WDC-titles. Austria 2002 did show to every one it clearly – when Rubens was forced to give away his win to Michael Schumacher - i will never forget when Schumi explained after the race how “important” it was for the team that “he will win!!” – and he did it in a situation there he was leading the championship having 144 points against Rubens 77 and Rubens was on second place..

:)
26th November 2009, 17:58
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzeidzei

Kimis future surely seems to interest a lot. What I dont get is why people keep bashing him and his attitude while he´s gone from Ferrari?

Why not?!
26th November 2009, 20:22
a fly on the wall

With current hindsite

Quote:

Originally Posted by truefan72

where will he go, waht will he do

1. I hope he comes back to McLaren. It would make an excellent team and we would have 2 race winning cars

2. He might leave F1 altogether. To me this is less likely despite his love affair with rallying. I recall many years back when F1 drivers would (were allowed by their teams to) compete in other racing series and races. Why should it be any different for Kimi. at 29, Kimi is in the peak performance window of an F1 driver and he will likely continue in the top flight successfully both on track and financially if he can.

3. I hear Renault is courting him with Nokia joining the courtship. I heard he as already refused a $45 mill deal from Renault (which should extinguish any notion of them leaving the sport. soon after this nonsense inquiry from the FIA ceases)

4. A megadeal with the new incarnation of BMW. They have the team, the cars and with a decent engine the right setup to be a top competitor so, he might take a stab there with some serious cash and well developed chasis.

McLaren is out of the question.

Mercedes is buying Braun and has a german driver. Shui is all talk for the spare spot. My money is on Raki as a champion driver (one of few available) will fill the spot. Nothing else makes sense.
27th November 2009, 00:56
Saint Devote

Does it really make sense to hire Kimi as one of two driver? I don't think so. The role of a racing driver in f1 has become more integrated and he is not prepared to act on behalf of the team outside of the car.

Ferrari ought to continue pushing for allowing a third car and then rehire Kimi. That way they can benefit from him at tracks like Spa and require nothng else.

I think Kimi would like a situation where he could race in rallies he chooses as well as grand prix he could choose. No pr or anything else required.

Turn up at weekends, do his thing and go home. It may make the other drivers disgruntled, not Massa, but we all know what a girl Alonso can be!

I really do think that Bernie or Todt or SOMEONE should step in and try mediate - because we will all miss Raikkonen. And these days whats the point of winning at Spa when Kimi will not be there??!!!

Surely nobody has forgotten just how brilliant this great Finnish driver can be?
27th November 2009, 06:07
Roamy

well I am not Mr Contract but what I understand to date is that Ferrari is on the hook for his 45 mil pay ticket for 2010. Further more there is probably a non compete for him to get the money. I doubt any team on the grid is going to pay 45 mil next year for a driver. So I suppose Kimi is not in the mood to take a big pay cut. Therefore SMART MONEY says go to the bench for a year.
27th November 2009, 08:13
Dzeidzei

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Except that's a crap example, as Fernando did everything in his power to gain the upper hand, or at least a semblance of parity. That he failed wasn't through a lack of trying.

Kimi, on the other hand, ate a fecking ice cream.

Im sure Fernando has a clause in his contract saying: If the KERS fails and youre not to get anywhere near the damn thing, you must stay in regulated proximity, stand guard, look highly motivated and absolutely under no circumstances eat ice cream.
27th November 2009, 09:36
jas123f1

Quote:

Originally Posted by a fly on the wall

McLaren is out of the question.

Mercedes is buying Braun and has a german driver. Shui is all talk for the spare spot. My money is on Raki as a champion driver (one of few available) will fill the spot. Nothing else makes sense.

Yes - Norbert Haug was earlier saying that he is interested to give the second seat to Kimi but the question is if he want to have it .. And I’m not sure that Kimi want to be (again) in the same team as Schumi as "team advisor" – there is a risk for too much “politic”.. but maybe.. if he get a contract he like.. but it looks more that he will drive Rally at least 2010 .. at least some ..

:)
27th November 2009, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

because we will all miss Raikkonen.

I don't.
27th November 2009, 10:18
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

because we will all miss Raikkonen.

:erm: NO! :down:
27th November 2009, 10:41
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

I don't.

That says a lot about you. You don't miss a guy who has always been absolutely fair to all his competitors, on and off the track, has never badmouthed anybody, has kept his calm in all situations, stayed loyal to Ferrari after it became clear that they wanted to get rid of him. The guy has more integrity than these Alonsos etc. put together.
27th November 2009, 13:26
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

The guy has more integrity than these Alonsos etc. put together.

Thats because he's always too drunk to figure out how to get out of his gorilla suit and shaft someone.
27th November 2009, 13:57
Shalafi

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Thats because he's always too drunk to figure out how to get out of his gorilla suit and shaft someone.

At least he isn't a gorilla. Fancy a banana?
27th November 2009, 14:17
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shalafi

At least he isn't a gorilla. Fancy a banana?

:laugh:
27th November 2009, 18:54
jens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Because Button is a nobody

Yet that "nobody" was offered the same amount of money by McLaren as Kimi - 6M per year.
27th November 2009, 18:57
jens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

I think Kimi would like a situation where he could race in rallies he chooses as well as grand prix he could choose. No pr or anything else required.

Well, there has to be some kind of a regime, not just you randonly do whatever you want, especially in top-level motorsports. :p : If Kimi really wanted to, he would be racing in F1 next year. He didn't want it enough. That's why I'm not exactly going to miss him. But instead of this I'm waiting with great interest, how will he fare in WRC. Hopefully he'll have enough motivation there to have a serious career and become the first highly-competitive F1 driver to make a serious impact in the series.
27th November 2009, 19:08
Sonic

Quote:

Originally Posted by jens

Yet that "nobody" was offered the same amount of money by McLaren as Kimi - 6M per year.

True. But Kimi at his weakest is worth 6m, whereas Button at his very best and current WDC is worth the same.
28th November 2009, 07:10
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Thats because he's always too drunk to figure out how to get out of his gorilla suit and shaft someone.

Yep, and you South Africans eat Biltong every day for breakfast :) . Come on, give it a rest, everybody knows you don't like Kimi.
30th November 2009, 10:56
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Yep, and you South Africans eat Biltong every day for breakfast :) . Come on, give it a rest, everybody knows you don't like Kimi.

What! Me not like Kimi? C'mon, that's unfair mate. I love the guy, adore his skills behind the wheel, his charisma, his charm, his passion for F1.....no wait you're right. I cant stand the guy :p :
30th November 2009, 15:57
snellman

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

What! Me not like Kimi? C'mon, that's unfair mate. I love the guy, adore his skills behind the wheel, his charisma, his charm, his passion for F1.....no wait you're right. I cant stand the guy :p :

and we can't stand you, stop denying it like a damn child, you know he is one of the best at what he do. At least he can stay professional no matter what, unlike the other whiny-assed spoiled brats
30th November 2009, 19:00
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by snellman

you know he is one of the best at what he do

Remind me again how many championships Mr. Monotone has won? If what you say is true, where are the results?

Gary
30th November 2009, 19:55
JRodrigues

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyshell

Remind me again how many championships Mr. Monotone has won? If what you say is true, where are the results?

Gary

How many championship has Colin McRae won?! And he was one of the greatest ever. How many WDC has Gilles Villeneuve?
30th November 2009, 20:44
snellman

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Mr Raikkonen is number 13 in the stats of Formula One races won. His name appears ahead of many of the greats including: Sterling Moss, G Hill, J Brabham, J Hunt, R Peterson etc etc...
http://www.motorsportsetc.com/stats/st_f1win.htm

His results are evident and 1 world championship is not to be laughed at. There again, who are you trying to measure him against for that matter? I can understand that Kimi's cool persona is not to everyones taste, but poking fun as though he has mediocre results is pure madness and lacks foresight IMO. :) .

amen.
30th November 2009, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

There again, who are you trying to measure him against for that matter?

How about other recent drivers on $25million per annum retainers?

Doesn't look so impressive then, does he?
30th November 2009, 21:45
jas123f1

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Mr Raikkonen is number 13 in the stats of Formula One races won. His name appears ahead of many of the greats including: Sterling Moss, G Hill, J Brabham, J Hunt, R Peterson etc etc...
http://www.motorsportsetc.com/stats/st_f1win.htm

His results are evident and 1 world championship is not to be laughed at. There again, who are you trying to measure him against for that matter? I can understand that Kimi's cool persona is not to everyones taste, but poking fun as though he has mediocre results is pure madness and lacks foresight IMO. :) .

Absolutely right, we don’t need to make things more difficult what they are.

Kimi is Kimi and has his personality – reticent and honest guy. Never speak b*** s*** of any. As Massa said Kimi don’t speak b*** s*** about people, he don’t speak good things of them – he don’t speak of them.. and of course there are some who don’t like it but I like it, I like Kimi because he make things – and better than many others. If it will be Rally next year – I will follow his carrier with interest.

:)
1st December 2009, 10:21
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by snellman

and we can't stand you, stop denying it like a damn child, you know he is one of the best at what he do. At least he can stay professional no matter what, unlike the other whiny-assed spoiled brats

Come on, 555 etc is decent chap except when it comes to Kimi. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyshell

Remind me again how many championships Mr. Monotone has won? If what you say is true, where are the results?

Gary

Hmm..Kimi statistics are pretty impressive, compared to lets say Mario Andretti or any other driver from your neck of the woods ;) .
1st December 2009, 10:25
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyshell

Remind me again how many championships Mr. Monotone has won? If what you say is true, where are the results?

Gary

Hmm..Kimi statistics are pretty impressive, compared to lets say Mario Andretti or any other driver from your neck of the woods ;) .
1st December 2009, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

So lets get this straight, we're not looking at the skill set of a driver, purely the cost of their wages? :eek:

I think the real question you need to ask yourself Tamb is, were Ferrari so desperate for a replacement for the great MS, that they were willing/stupid enough to offer that kind of money in the first place? If you are dull enough to believe that drivers are measured against their desired salary, then you have a very naive view of modern Formula One IMO.

It almost seems that Ferrari fans are bitter about Kimi purely because he was on nearly double what the rest of the field were on. This is a stupid amount of money, but at the end of the day you are only worth what people are willing to pay at the time.

I have a question: If the salaries of Massa and Raikkonen were reversed and Massa was the top paid driver, would Felipe be as popular with the tifosi as he is now? Lets not forget he is the big underachiever of the 2, but due to his friendly personality, he is popular. I have a feeling he would recieve similar resentment from the fans which suggests that its not about results at all, its purely money orientated. :)

It is not purely about the size of the salary, but the value recieved in return.
1st December 2009, 11:19
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by snellman

and we can't stand you, stop denying it like a damn child, you know he is one of the best at what he do. At least he can stay professional no matter what, unlike the other whiny-assed spoiled brats

Bullsh!t. Besides a short stint with Sauber he has driven in the top teams (McLaren & Ferrari) for about 7 or 8 years and only won one WDC and a dozen or so wins. He's average.

He aint in the league of the best (ie: Clark, Senna, Prost, Fangio, Schumacher etc etc).
1st December 2009, 14:13
ArrowsFA1

WRC future for Kimi...

Quote:

AUTOSPORT understands...that Raikkonen is set to sign a contract with Citroen in the next 24 hours.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80382
1st December 2009, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Well one WDC and 2 WCC's in 3 seasons is not bad really is it?

I'm surprised a man of apparent intelligence cannot get to grips with this basic concept.

There is more to it than money or results.

Kimi has not added anything of value since his championship win. His input to the 2008 WCC victory was marginal after Spain. Indeed, it could be said that he lost Ferrari more points than they could have won. If anything, his half-arsed driving cost his team-mate a WDC.

He has sat back and has not been a positive force on Ferrari. No leadership, no direction. Utterly pathetic.

For that reason, Ferrari got rid.

While they fecked up by employing him in the first place, at least they have seen sense now.

Ask yourself this....if you didn't provide the results your boss is expecting you to get on the salary he is paying you, how long before your arse is out the door? If the answer is 12 months, then you've got a very tolerant, non-business minded boss.
1st December 2009, 14:43
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Kimi has not added anything of value since his championship win...He has sat back and has not been a positive force on Ferrari. No leadership, no direction.

I'd go along with that. The contrast with MS is a stark one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

While they fecked up by employing him in the first place, at least they have seen sense now.

Ferrari were rather short-sighted during 1996-2006. They didn't have anyone lined up to "replace" MS and that ultimately, and somewhat inevitably, led them to Kimi's door. Getting rid of Kimi and replacing him with Alonso may be a fix, but they're still looking to buy-in success, rather than develop it, at least on the driver front.
1st December 2009, 15:01
JRodrigues

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

I'm surprised a man of apparent intelligence cannot get to grips with this basic concept.

There is more to it than money or results.

Kimi has not added anything of value since his championship win. His input to the 2008 WCC victory was marginal after Spain. Indeed, it could be said that he lost Ferrari more points than they could have won. If anything, his half-arsed driving cost his team-mate a WDC.

He has sat back and has not been a positive force on Ferrari. No leadership, no direction. Utterly pathetic.

For that reason, Ferrari got rid.

While they fecked up by employing him in the first place, at least they have seen sense now.

Ask yourself this....if you didn't provide the results your boss is expecting you to get on the salary he is paying you, how long before your arse is out the door? If the answer is 12 months, then you've got a very tolerant, non-business minded boss.

You could say it was Ferrari that took more points from Kimi. Remember Monaco 2008, Silverstone 2008, France 2008, the whole 2009 season. Not forgetting the Canada inciddent. And almost stopping in the middle of the track to let Massa pass in China.
1st December 2009, 17:19
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

So lets get this straight, we're not looking at the skill set of a driver, purely the cost of their wages? :eek:

Do you understand the meaning of "return on investment". No one is comparing him purely on the cost of his wage. The comparison is on his performance measured against that cost.

Gary
1st December 2009, 17:23
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Hmm..Kimi statistics are pretty impressive, compared to lets say Mario Andretti or any other driver from your neck of the woods.

Wow, nice little bit of xenophobic attitude. Who said ANYTHING about where he was from? I could care less if he is from Mars. Or where Mario is from either (BTW you might want to check where Mario is ACTUALLY from.) I just don't see Mr. Monotone as all that impressive. Sure he has had his moments. But at the end of the day, those moments have been to few and far between. He is a good driver, no doubt. But a great one? Hardly.

Gary
1st December 2009, 17:24
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

It is not purely about the size of the salary, but the value recieved in return.

Damn it tamburello, we gotta stop thinking alike. People will talk.

Cheers, my friend.

Gary
1st December 2009, 17:26
gloomyDAY

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyshell

Do you understand the meaning of "return on investment". No one is comparing him purely on the cost of his wage. The comparison is on his performance measured against that cost.

Gary

I think Kimi and his manager grifted the Ferrari team.

Has anyone else ever heard of a team paying an entire year's salary to a driver for not competing?

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