Fuel issue- No penalty for BMW/Williams- McLaren to appeal

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Originally Posted by spiritone

Why is it when anyone critisizes ferrari the ferrari fans can't handle it.

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Funny, I thought most people on this thread were criticizing McLaren (specifically Ron Dennis) and it's the McLaren fans who can't handle it!

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Originally Posted by spiritone

There is no doubt that if mclaren had won the championship and their fuel was found to be to cold they would be disqualified immediately.

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That might have had something to do with the fact that they were already found guilty of espionage (OK, breaking rule 151C if you want to call it that) and were only barely allowed to continue the season (and next) by the good graces of the FIA! I'm surprised they were allowed to get away with breaking the rule on rain tires used in practice!

Didn't ferrari run illegal in australia and get away with it, isn't their wheel covers an areo device (but of course it ferrari so its legal).How do you know that the people that they have hired from mclaren didn't bring info to them.

Somehow ferrari fans always think that their team is so squecky clean and would never stoop to underhanded methods. Wise up, this is f1 and i doubt if there is a team out there that isn't using everything at their disposal to get whatever info they can.

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Originally Posted by spiritone

Didn't ferrari run illegal in australia and get away with it, isn't their wheel covers an areo device (but of course it ferrari so its legal).How do you know that the people that they have hired from mclaren didn't bring info to them.

Somehow ferrari fans always think that their team is so squecky clean and would never stoop to underhanded methods. Wise up, this is f1 and i doubt if there is a team out there that isn't using everything at their disposal to get whatever info they can.

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Man, if you are going to specialize in Ferrari bashing, you arrive into the forums a few years too late :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by spiritone

Why is it when anyone critisizes ferrari the ferrari fans can't handle it. They seem to think their's a separate set of rules for ferrari, (which if you go by the decisions of max there is) There is no doubt that if mclaren had won the championship and their fuel was found to be to cold they would be disqualified immediately.

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Based on we have seen lately, I think that rather than disqualify them, they'll pay a fine, something like, I don't know...$15,000 dollars????? :)
McLaren drivers disqualified....don't you know why now F1 fans call LH Golden Boy? Rules don't apply to him.

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

....don't you know why now F1 fans call LH Golden Boy? Rules don't apply to him.

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Actually it would be more appropriate to call him the "Chosen One."

if he is like some say "chosen one", here is a chance to "choose" him.
If they don't that practically proofes all those "LH get unfair advantage" whiners wrong. JIMO

I want to see a fine handed out since there is a violation of rules. I do not demand DQing the drivers. If they hand out pointsdeduction and/or money fine just against the teams or just anything reasonable I will be fine with it. But I will not be fine with just letting this go.

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Originally Posted by spiritone

Didn't ferrari run illegal in australia and get away with it,

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No. The rules were changed before Malaysia so the floor was perfectly legal and passed scrutineering in Australia.

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Originally Posted by spiritone

isn't their wheel covers an areo device

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No. They have been approved by the FIA officials and are on other cars like Renault at the moment.

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Originally Posted by spiritone

How do you know that the people that they have hired from mclaren didn't bring info to them.

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Because Ron Dennis would be all over them in an instant if he had the slightest hint of wrongdoing.

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Originally Posted by spiritone

Somehow ferrari fans always think that their team is so squecky clean and would never stoop to underhanded methods. Wise up, this is f1 and i doubt if there is a team out there that isn't using everything at their disposal to get whatever info they can.

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I never claimed that Ferrari were "squeaky clean." All teams push the rules in their design, but not all teams have (an illegally obtained) 780 pages of their opponents data and countless emails and text messages telling them about pit strategies and helping them run simulator set-ups in order to understand their opponents' cars.

McLaren fans need to stop playing the victims, suck it up, and move on to next year!

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Originally Posted by electron

I want to see a fine handed out since there is a violation of rules. I do not demand DQing the drivers. If they hand out pointsdeduction and/or money fine just against the teams or just anything reasonable I will be fine with it. But I will not be fine with just letting this go.

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That's the most reasonable post I have read so far! Yes, they (Williams and BMW) should probably be fined in the same way that McLaren were fined for the rain-tire fiasco. Perhaps even constructors' points for Brazil should be taken away. Anything more than that would be manipulating the championship.

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Originally Posted by spiritone

Somehow ferrari fans always think that their team is so squecky clean and would never stoop to underhanded methods.

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Ferrari fans this, Ferrari fans that! What about McLaren fans then?!

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Originally Posted by spiritone

Wise up, this is f1 and i doubt if there is a team out there that isn't using everything at their disposal to get whatever info they can.

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And why are you doing this whole circus then? Surely every fan of a team will be biased towards their favorites.

The difference lies however in being able to tell and accept when your favorites aren't up to the job or they did something wrong. There are very few that are able to do that every time, and I'm not one of them either.

While I agree with those, including the McLaren drivers, who have said it would not be a good way for Hamilton to win the championship should Williams & BMW be excluded, the fact remains if those teams broke a rule, or were deliberately seeking to gain an illegal advantage, then they should be penalised.

If this had arisen in middle of the season it wouldn't have been an issue. Just because it is the championship deciding last race of the season the rules, and any punishment, should be applied in exactly the same way.

One of the problems is that the FIA have no fixed penalties. They can apply whatever penalty they wish, and that leaves them open to the accusation of manipulation.

Max will not want McLaren picking up a title at the FIA awards ceremony so if any penalty is applied to Williams & BMW you can be sure Hamilton will not gain any points as a result.