How do you see the future of rally?

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Originally Posted by Barreis

Don't no but now it's so expensive top rallying.

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Yes, we all know that. But crying for good old days won't make it cheaper.

Know that also.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Yes, we all know that. But crying for good old days won't make it cheaper.

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Don't think it was that cheap at that time either, not everyone had that 300kDM or 150k€ as their pocket money.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

A serious answer, please.

You just don't see the causality. 4WD sport cars didn't disappear because gr.A was turned into WRC but vice versa. Gr.A disappeared because car makers were no longer interested in 4WD sport cars.

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Exactly right!
The cost to a manufacturer of the design & type approval of a road car with limited sales just so you could have a competitive rally car in the world championship was so high that Ford and the others said "no more". The WRC formula meant that the total cost to the car maker to compete in WRC is lower, even if each car might be a bit more expensive.
I've been around long enough to have seen this cycle happen before. When rallying started it was mostly privateers in standard cars. Then manufacturers got involved and started developing special parts. People complained & said it was too expensive, so homologation was introduced to make competitors use standard cars. Standard cars either broke or weren't quick enough & people said it's too expensive to make lots of standard cars with the parts you need to go rallying (homologation specials). The homologation rules were changed to allow limited production of special parts. This was too expensive, so GpB was introduced. This was too dangerous so they tried to go back to standard cars and we got back on the cycle again.
Top level rallying has always been expensive & people have always complained about the cost. They complained that BDA engines for Escorts were too expensive in the 70's. They complained that everything for Quattro's was too expensive in the 80's. I got bored & stopped listening then so I can't tell you what was too expensive in the 90's & 00's but people did complain so that's why we are where we are. People are still complaining, I guess they always will.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Yes, we all know that. But crying for good old days won't make it cheaper.

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I believe some of the solutions to the WRC's problems are to be found in the past. By this I don't mean reverting to rear-wheel-drive, of course, but only if one looks at the modern WRC and sees something that can't possibly be improved upon is it possible to argue that things weren't better before. Most would argue that this simply isn't the case. Maybe, therefore, there are lessons to be drawn from times gone by?

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Originally Posted by DonJippo

Don't think it was that cheap at that time either, not everyone had that 300kDM or 150k€ as their pocket money.

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Quite so.

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Originally Posted by Steve Boyd

Exactly right!
The cost to a manufacturer of the design & type approval of a road car with limited sales just so you could have a competitive rally car in the world championship was so high that Ford and the others said "no more". The WRC formula meant that the total cost to the car maker to compete in WRC is lower, even if each car might be a bit more expensive.
I've been around long enough to have seen this cycle happen before. When rallying started it was mostly privateers in standard cars. Then manufacturers got involved and started developing special parts. People complained & said it was too expensive, so homologation was introduced to make competitors use standard cars. Standard cars either broke or weren't quick enough & people said it's too expensive to make lots of standard cars with the parts you need to go rallying (homologation specials). The homologation rules were changed to allow limited production of special parts. This was too expensive, so GpB was introduced. This was too dangerous so they tried to go back to standard cars and we got back on the cycle again.
Top level rallying has always been expensive & people have always complained about the cost. They complained that BDA engines for Escorts were too expensive in the 70's. They complained that everything for Quattro's was too expensive in the 80's. I got bored & stopped listening then so I can't tell you what was too expensive in the 90's & 00's but people did complain so that's why we are where we are. People are still complaining, I guess they always will.

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This is all very interesting, and I agree with much of it, but are you too not of the view that something, somewhere, has gone seriously wrong for rallying to have ended up in the situation in which it finds itself today? Given the breadth of your perspective, I'd be fascinated to hear your views on this.

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Originally Posted by DonJippo

Don't think it was that cheap at that time either, not everyone had that 300kDM or 150k€ as their pocket money.

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Now it's fortune to buy a car

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Originally Posted by Barreis

Now it's fortune to buy a car

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The figures have changed but through inflation you almost get the same amount as it were back in the days. It's all about inflation ;) It's was expensive and still is ... numbers have changed but you get the same for the value

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Originally Posted by cali

The figures have changed but through inflation you almost get the same amount as it were back in the days. It's all about inflation ;) It's was expensive and still is ... numbers have changed but you get the same for the value

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In which case, why has any problem developed? Global economic circumstances do not provide the complete answer.