Rally History (part II)

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Originally Posted by Kaps

Hm, that's odd, the other two had the same cars (Escort RS 1800), and the same entrant-Masport(NZ)Ltd.
So, what determines that Mikkola & Vatanen are works crews, and Robson & Donald are not?
What I want to say is: was there actually any criterium by which they could be distinguished, or was it purely provisional?

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I don't think you can ever decide exactly. G.Robson's criterium is probably whether the cars were works-built and taken there direct from the works team's base. Non-works might be ex-works cars sold some time before or cars assembled locally (even if to full works specification).
You then have the degree of "works" involvement on the actual rally. As an example with the Escort (which, incidently, by 1979 would not be an "RS1800" but the re-homologated Gp4 "Escort RS" - a car that was never actually built as a production car) some of the Sutton/Rothmans appearances were supported by key works people and others were not, but none were officially "works" entries.
A list of works entries that only included those made solely in the name of the factory team might be a bit thin.

I agree with FAL !
Sometimes you never know if they are official or semi-official drivers or teams and the examples of FAL are correct. Is the Rothmans Ford Rally Team the official team in 81?

Regards
jorge

Ok, I know that this particular question is a can of worms and as old as rallying.
Also, I know that in (far too) many cases there are no "correct" answers to whether a car is a "works", "semi-works", "works-supported" or privateer...

I wanted to know what are your feelings on the matter, and as I need to have some sort of criterium for my own records, I think I'll have it like this:

A car entered by manufacturer (for example Team Esso Peugeot), or local importer/dealer (like Marshalls(EA)Ltd. for Safari) would be considered a "works" entry.

All the rest wouldn't.

What do you all think?

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Originally Posted by Kaps

what about 1977 Andruet-"Biche" at Monte and Andruet-Delferrier at Portugal, Acropolis, San Remo and Corse. I believe he was not a part of Fiat's works team. Do you know his entrant on these events?

Also, I believe there was no more official Alpine-Renault team in 1977, so what was the entrant for Frequelin-Delaval at Monte?

Thank you.

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Please, does anyone knows anything about these?

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Originally Posted by Kaps

Please, does anyone knows anything about these?

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On the Andruet Fiats, the french magazine "sport auto" says Fiat France.


Carles.

Thanks Carles. I suppose this goes for all 5 Andruet's outings in 1977?

Yes, all the entries by "Fiat France" or "Fiat Automobiles"

Regards
jorge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaps

Hi jorge, what about 1977 Andruet-"Biche" at Monte and Andruet-Delferrier at Portugal, Acropolis, San Remo and Corse. I believe he was not a part of Fiat's works team. Do you know his entrant on these events?

Thank you.

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Sorry, already answered :p :

my mistake..

Is it possible that Fiat S.p.A. entered no less than 6 works car on 1977 RAC?!

I have:

Alen-Kivimaki
Bacchelli-Rossetti
Verini-Russo
Lampinen-Andreasson
Makinen-Liddon
Salonen-Markkula

and I believe they're all works crews.

Also, at Criterium de Quebec, Fiat S.p.A. had 5 crews?

Alen-Kivimaki
Lampinen-Andreasson
Makinen-Liddon
Salonen-Markkula
Rohrl-Geistdorfer

Is that correct?

And finally, at San Remo, "Tony"-Mannini were entered by Fiat S.p.A. or ???

On 77 RAC 4 Fiats were entered as "Olio Fiat" the then name of the works team) but Makinen and Lampinen were entered by "Autonovo OY" (presumably the Finnish Fiat importer). The address given for all the Fiat entries was that of the UK Fiat HQ in Brentford, just west of London.
Follow the money, as they say... but I expect the service for all was co-ordinated.
It was quite normal to have large numbers of the same works cars on the RAC (BMC Cooper S in 1966 - 6?, Ford Escort RS 1979, etc.)