Prodrive Mini WRC

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Originally Posted by EightGear

Actually M.Rantanen was faster than both Sordo and Meeke in Finland SS1. Then he crashed.

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Yes, and with the Grifone's Mini. But it was one stage only...

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

can you name some ??

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At the office at the moment but just off the top of my head - Russell Brooks, Andy Dawson, in fact anyone who drove an RS1800 who wasn't in the factory team, (in '79 RNZ Mikkola & Robson were in Masport cars whilst Vatenan had the Boreham car), anyone who sat in a David Sutton car, Chequered Flag Stratos (Waldegaard) , Stig Blomqvist wasn't in the factory team when he first entered a Quattro in Sweden, which brings to mind Per Eklund, Mats Jonsson, Gronholm & Martin both had full spec Corollas, who was the Greek that drove the 037 (appliance of science)?, etc, etc, etc ... I could go on but I haven't time.
It is only recently that the ultimate performing cars have been limited to the one or two drivers sitting in the factory seat, whether by manufacturer choice or by regulation.

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It is normal the best drivers to be selected and offered the best equipment... it is what happens in every day life as well....

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That is correct.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

when did campana drove a private mini and when a works one ?

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In his back yard.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

please try me and show me a PRIVATE car driven by a TOURIST that is fast...

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Ahhhh you remember thousands of private cars that are fast, and decided to include "TOURIST" on the second version of the question. :D

You are good in rhetoric.

Did you really asked to Sordo and Loeb about Monza? Hum?

Just thought of a few more for you NOT... Malcolm Wilson (Ford & Audi), Buffum (TR8 & Audi), Marc Duez (Porsche & BMW?), Bettega (Fiat 131), Mouton (Fiat 131), Millen (Mazda323), Sainz (Sierra), Loubet, Auriol, Del Zoppo, Recalde, Airikala (Lancia Integrale).

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Originally Posted by JAM

In his back yard.



Ahhhh you remember thousands of private cars that are fast, and decided to include "TOURIST" on the second version of the question. :D

You are good in rhetoric.

Did you really asked to Sordo and Loeb about Monza? Hum?

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of course i will include the word tourist because that is my point.... It is not the car that is THAT crap (for sure it is downgraded) it is the driver that makes it look crap...

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Originally Posted by sollitt

Just thought of a few more for you NOT... Malcolm Wilson (Ford & Audi), Buffum (TR8 & Audi), Marc Duez (Porsche & BMW?), Bettega (Fiat 131), Mouton (Fiat 131), Millen (Mazda323), Sainz (Sierra), Loubet, Auriol, Del Zoppo, Recalde, Airikala (Lancia Integrale).

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yes, everyone started in a private car, nobody was born inside a car manufacturer...

the guys you mention had notable results, but so did the drivers of today with private cars (Solberg, Latvala, Hirvonen, Novikov, ostberg ects) the question is did anyone ever win constantly in a private car or was able to challenge constantly in them back in the 70s 80s ??

the thing is private cars were always a bit downgraded...it is not just a todays phenomenon.

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Originally Posted by tommeke_B

Not really a good comparison I think, can you name any in the last 10 years?

Those were the times when talented people could find sponsors to support them. When a top car costed only half as much as it costs now and the costs of doing an event maybe 1/4th of what it is now. The times when you could win almost half a minute on one stage...
Times change... So does our sport and I'm not sure if it's in a positive way.

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I am sure it's not a positive way. It suits the current Manufacturers that the cars cost so much......and as long as this remains, the sport is going nowhere. As Nicky Grist said in his interview the other night, the sport needs a re-write. Whether that is with the current Manufacturers is another matter.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

the thing is private cars were always a bit downgraded...it is not just a todays phenomenon.

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Private cars are a litle bit downgraded, it's normal. What is not normal, is the private cars be always much slower, even when are driven by the works driver in an event like Monza RallyShow.

And it's not normal that the same car in private hands is faster with S2000 configuration than with WRC configuration.

You can use the tourist bull****t in you rethoric about all the drivers, but the facts above are simple and obvious.

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Originally Posted by JAM

And it's not normal that the same car in private hands is faster with S2000 configuration than with WRC configuration.

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Actually there are a number of factors at play there - a driver who feels 100% comfortable in a slower car may easily go faster than the beefier wrc configuration if he doesn't have that same confidence. Also when you look at s2000 config there is the ability to make time up in other ways - but then again easier to just say faster car but he's slower all prodrive's fault

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

I am sure it's not a positive way. It suits the current Manufacturers that the cars cost so much......and as long as this remains, the sport is going nowhere. As Nicky Grist said in his interview the other night, the sport needs a re-write. Whether that is with the current Manufacturers is another matter.

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One of the main problem is the business model. This business works if the manufacturer controls everything, or by other words, if he can do money in everything. If we has to sell only part of the package to the privateers, then the car is crap. That's why almost all the private drivers run with second manufacturers team.

The manufacturers don't let private teams grow, they want to earn all the possible cent on thgis business. In the last 4 years we had only two exceptions.

And we have another problem: Technology. We can't stop the R&D, but there's enough money to pay it? It's not a WRC problem, is a motorsport problem.