Rally Italia Sardegna 2018

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

"2.13 PROHIBITED SERVICE
The use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the
organisers), spare parts, tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence of
team personnel as defined in Art. 48.2."

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When Ott Tanak jump from competitors to organisers? I missed that moment.

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Originally Posted by eib1

https://twitter.com/i/status/1005756193573429248

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^
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https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conte...the-bushes.gif

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Originally Posted by sonnybobiche

Well, actually, no motherfucker. It states that "The use or receipt by the crew of any manutfactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the organizers)..." is prohibited. Nice try leaving that part out, as if nobody would consult the fucking rulebook. Obviously the timecard is supplied by the organizers.

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Supply and provide are different words.
If organisers supply to Latvala full charged battery - it would be allowed. But did organisers make that battery? - no, just supply. So you can receive ALL things in the world FROM organisers

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Originally Posted by sonnybobiche

The stewards' decision continues, "the time card was handed over at a regroup, which appears to have been permitted under WRC Art. 48.2.2 unless it is a regroup before a Power Stage, which was the case here"

So let's consult the rulebook again. Rule 48.2.2 reads, "The passing of food, drink, clothing and information (data card, road book, etc.) to or from the crew when located in the zone is permitted:
-in tyre fitting zones, in light fitting zones from the personnel authorised in the zone only;
-in service parks, at regroups or whilst the cars are in a media zone."

However, I cannot find any reference to not being allowed to receive materials at a regroup specifically before a power stage. I don't know where this is coming from.

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To enter a regroup - you must be checked-in into TC before regroup. HOW you can do it without timecard? All 48.2.2 worked only you checked in.

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Originally Posted by rallyace

The rule itself states:

"The use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the
organisers), spare parts, tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence of
team personnel as defined in Art. 48.2."

What the article says is this: You're never allowed to receive any good, solid or liquid, unless the good is supplied (i.e. given) to you by the organisers. In this case the first requirement is met due to a time card being a solid material. So far, so good. Hence the time card could only have been legally given to Ingrassia by the organiser, not by Tänak.

In other words: The rule has nothing to do with the fact that the time cards are issued by the organisers, but the fact of the matter is whether the time card in question is supplied (i.e. given) to a competitor by anyone who isn't an organiser.

Theoretically, if the time card had been given to Ingrassia by a steward (who went to the next time control by foot or bike), the acceptance of the time card would have been legal as per Art. 2.13. Since it was given ("supplied", cf. the rules) by Tänak, the reception constituted a breach of the rules.

Therefore, the decision of the stewards is completely in accordance with Art. 2.13 of the rule book.

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I disagree. What is prohibited is "The use or receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the organizers), spare parts tools or equipment other than those carried in the competing car or the presence of team personnel as defined in Art. 48.2"

So what the article says is this: The crew are not allowed to use or receive any manufactured material except those supplied by the organizer... The term "supplied" refers to the nature of the manufactured material, i.e. receipt of manufactured materials supplied by the organizers is not prohibited. If "supplied" were intended to refer to the process of how an item is received by the crew, it would come at the end Art. 2.13, because it would also apply to the use or receipt of "spare parts, tools or equipment..."

Therefore, "supplied" can be read to mean that any item that was initially supplied by the organizers is ok, and that sort of seems to be how the stewards read it, since they mention under extenuating circumstances that "the time card [...] was not a new item received".

Even if you somehow interpret "supplied by the organizers" to refer to how the item is received by the crew, the fact that the organizers gave the time card to Tanak with the intention of Tanak bringing it to Ogier means that the organizers effectively "supplied" the card to Ogier. The only way to argue otherwise would be if there was an explicit rule that clearly stated that the manufactured material must be physically given directly to the crew by the organizers each time.

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Originally Posted by m-ast

there is more going on, 10000€ fine to Hyundai for a wrong photo in the homologation form of the R5: rallyitaliasardegna.com/?ddownload=1767

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BTW it's not first time when Hyundai make changes to R5 car and didn't renew photos in homologation.

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Originally Posted by KKS

When Ott Tanak jump from competitors to organisers? I missed that moment.

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Anti Ogier propaganda won't make my words different. Well, actually not my words anyway.

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Originally Posted by KKS

To enter a regroup - you must be checked-in into TC before regroup. HOW you can do it without timecard? All 48.2.2 worked only you checked in.

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Not fully that, it also applies in the media zone before the entrance in the reagroup, so maybe there was the case

The marshal should not be allowed to hand over one's crew time card to another crew/member.

Its a clear exclusion... simple as that.

Not fair of course, but still rules are rules...

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Originally Posted by KKS

Supply and provide are different words.

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Of course they are, but the meaning is almost the same. Supply is more of economic term and has more global meaning. And in the context of that, "supply" is more justified to receive something, by someone else on behalf of the supplier.

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Originally Posted by m-ast

Not fully that, it also applies in the media zone before the entrance in the reagroup, so maybe there was the case

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did we have any boards which defines a start of media zones? But it does not matter. After SS19 and before La Pedraia regroup was no media zones.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

Its a clear exclusion... simple as that.

Not fair of course, but still rules are rules...

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Well now that you've cleared it up for everyone I guess the discussion is over. :rotflmao:

I thought the Greeks basically invented philosophy and legal reasoning. You can't just say "It's a clear exclusion... simple as that" without explaining how such an exclusion would follow from reasonable interpretation of the written rules.
:grenade:

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

Of course they are, but the meaning is almost the same. Supply is more of economic term and has more global meaning. And in the context of that, "supply" is more justified to receive something, by someone else on behalf of the supplier.

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You are right, although it would good if we could have a native French-speaking member try to interpret the French text of the rulebook, since that's the one that matters anyway.

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Originally Posted by sonnybobiche

So what the article says is this: The crew are not allowed to use or receive any manufactured material except those supplied by the organizer... The term "supplied" refers to the nature of the manufactured material, i.e. only manufactured materials supplied by the organizers are not prohibited. If "supplied" were intended to refer to the process of how an item is received by the crew, it would come at the end Art. 2.13, because it would also apply to the use or receipt of "spare parts, tools or equipment..."

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You see that marshals at the end of stage offer a bottle of water? It must be water from a rally HQ in a rally organisers bottle, otherwise it does not refers to the nature of the material ;)

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Originally Posted by KKS

You see that marshals at the end of stage offer a bottle of water? It must be water from a rally HQ in a rally organisers bottle, otherwise it does not refers to the nature of the material ;)

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For sure the manufacturer of that bottle didn't meant it to be supplied to the crew Nwhatever in whatever competition:D

so we started to produce "if"'s and "what"'s

Only real rule of 2.13 that crew can accept everything what organisers give it. Timecards, water, spare alternator belts.. whatever.

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Originally Posted by KKS

so we started to produce "if"'s and "what"'s

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Please exclude from that "we".

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Originally Posted by dimviii

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/phot...r_dsc_0796.jpg

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https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...re-id970960316

read the description... - https://www.gettyimages.ae/detail/ne...re-id970960316

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Originally Posted by danon

The marshal should not be allowed to hand over one's crew time card to another crew/member.

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Probably right, imagine the uproar if the marshall gave the time card to another competing crew to take to him, who then lost it (or 'lost it' ;) ).

The fault is still with the driver/codriver who left it behind to start with, but they would not be happy if they went back for it and someone else had taken it and not passed it on.

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Originally Posted by wrc2017

no excitement without Meeke

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Meeke gone and we got probably the most exciting rally of the season.

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Originally Posted by sonnybobiche

The stewards decision, under the section "Reason", reads as follows:

"WRC Art. 2.13 clearly states that the "... receipt by the crew of any manufactured materials (solid or liquid..." is not allowed."

Well, actually, no motherfucker. It states that "The use or receipt by the crew of any manutfactured materials (solid or liquid, unless supplied by the organizers)..." is prohibited. Nice try leaving that part out, as if nobody would consult the fucking rulebook. Obviously the timecard is supplied by the organizers.


The stewards' decision continues, "the time card was handed over at a regroup, which appears to have been permitted under WRC Art. 48.2.2 unless it is a regroup before a Power Stage, which was the case here"

So let's consult the rulebook again. Rule 48.2.2 reads, "The passing of food, drink, clothing and information (data card, road book, etc.) to or from the crew when located in the zone is permitted:
-in tyre fitting zones, in light fitting zones from the personnel authorised in the zone only;
-in service parks, at regroups or whilst the cars are in a media zone."

However, I cannot find any reference to not being allowed to receive materials at a regroup specifically before a power stage. I don't know where this is coming from.

Once again, I can see absolutely zero justification for Ogier/Ingrassia being handed ANY penalty whatsoever, suspended or otherwise. I hope they will appeal and I hope that the FIA will clean up this legal mess that they created through their complete incompetence. But since the FIA are clearly borderline retarded, I don't hold out much hope.

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I think, though in more humble words, that this is the correct assement of the situation.

(If Tanak shouldn´t have brought the timecard, Ogier had to go back to stage end (outside timezon) and let Ingrassa run and fetch the timecard. That, may have been a late in to the next timecontrol, with 20 secs penalt every minute, which should have been the only bad outcome of the mistake)

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Meeke gone and we got probably the most exciting rally of the season.

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huge correlation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3J8H7gC3Lk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyZX9L0q4YY&t=

Not sure if posted already, Mikkelsen's mistake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcuX...ature=youtu.be
With last year's car that wheel could have been somewhere in the bushes.

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Originally Posted by dimviii

rallyingUK


• @rallyargentina 2017 - @thierryneuville won by 0.7 seconds over @ElfynEvans

• @Rally_d_Italia 2018 - @thierryneuville won by 0.7 seconds over @SebOgier

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https://twitter.com/simon_lemag/stat...47829574897665

Neuville-Gilsoul built win joker and extends lead of Drivers Championship by 8 points after #RallyItaliaSardegna ► http://bit.ly/2xZJSJh

caption this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfbkXWUWAAED5C5.jpg

Here's a video I made at the finish, best moment ever :-D Amazing atmosphere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89_8xQT2tHM

That's a strange way to apply a penalty. Treating a time card as some kind of foreign support is silly compared to having a rule saying don't drive off without your card.

Wales Rally GB? :)

https://abload.de/img/wrc-rally-italia-sarda1sbi.jpg

https://abload.de/img/wrc-rally-italia-sard5ksv1.jpg

[QUOTE=EstWRC;1184768]caption this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfbkXWUWAAED5C5.jpg[/


"Jari, Malcom just sent me a text, he overheard Tommi Skyping Kris about something!! Mad's didn't believe me - don't worry mate, your good at Historics with that Audi quattro anyway!

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Originally Posted by hype

Here's a video I made at the finish, best moment ever :-D Amazing atmosphere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89_8xQT2tHM

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A very nice video. You captured the moment. Thanks for sharing! :)

https://youtu.be/HXPVi82xRwk at 1min rock on the line latvala, its seems like someone put it on the road special for latvala.

https://www.giornalemotori.com/wp-co...8705631523.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kestask

https://youtu.be/HXPVi82xRwk at 1min rock on the line latvala, its seems like someone put it on the road special for latvala.

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It's filmed from Ogier's car

Sassari-Argentiera stage, first time I've been there, what an amazing stage!

https://abload.de/img/wrc-rally-italia-sardijywv.jpg

https://abload.de/img/wrc-rally-italia-sard4nxjp.jpg

both very nice photos^^
first one if was closer,will be amazing.

Hi people! Here our video of our Sardegna Rally!!! It was an incredible edition.

Hope you enjoy as us!

Best regards!!!

https://youtu.be/YTIHals1spU

Another great rally I attended! Such a good fight at the end, being there when Neuville and the hundreds of fans at the finish line. Never experienced such... I cannot describe it. The fans, the passion and intensity of the win! It was awesome.

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Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

Another great rally I attended! Such a good fight at the end, being there when Neuville and the hundreds of fans at the finish line. Never experienced such... I cannot describe it. The fans, the passion and intensity of the win! It was awesome.

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Same for me, best moment I ever experienced in 13 years of rally for me. It was just amazing!

looks like a movie shot of the Gladiator movie...

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3t..._5b1e6a9f1.jpg