Developing is also by drivers, Duez and Loix were know about their knowledge and the feeling to make the car better.
Printable View
Developing is also by drivers, Duez and Loix were know about their knowledge and the feeling to make the car better.
Volkswagen now has Ogier and there are rumours of Mikkelssen too.
So for Hänninen door looks closed... Maybe Hänninen's story with VAG is over and he becomes Ford's number two? ;)
Loeb was the developer for c4 and ds3.If Ogier had drive a prototype ds3 thats not making him a developer.My ''interpretation'' was at your point that '' he is going to develop the polo to suit him''.And that is not something right.Its not right because the challenge is to beat Citroen /Ford and not make a car that suit Ogier.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
developing is a job between drivers and engineers.Both of them must understand what they want,and must know how to fix it.Hope Ogier study the vocabulary asap.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
About the last sentence,of course he knows how things were done by citroen,but we don t know yet if vw can manage it at the same level.
Ogier at last rallies btw couldn t manage to set up proper his ds3.
To summary a little,it is good for Ogier and vw their co operation and i wish them the best.But we have to be carefull about predictions for a young team,and a driver who can t manage to finish rallies constantly after 4 years of his development.So we have to be a little carefull about what he is capable to do after one year outside wrc competition.
I think that the basic developer in Citroën is still the good old Bugalski. The best thing is to have top drivers and wise engineers in one person though not many of those are living on this planet. Anyway I'm not skeptic about VW abilities. So far they showed really serious approach and the latest informations saying they even plan hi-altitude test sessions in Mexico is just encouraging my feeling.
dimvii, draw it mild man ;) if they want ogier(and his teammate) to win, they should defenetly make the car fit him(and his teammate) and they defenetly will. and not make it fit to anyone, like ford does. citroens also fitted loeb the best...
i am mild darkstar but totally disagree when you say that ''they should make the car definetely fit him''? There is no existence of something like this.If a car is ''wrong'' from the drawing board is not going to fit anybody.If it is ''right'' is going to fit everybody knows to setup for each event.There is no fitment for a specific driver.Plenty of examples with rally cars,from wrc/s2000/grN/grA etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
It's unclear, but in an interview on WRR during Rally Germany some guy from VW said they would start the 2013 season with 3 cars - maybe 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by noel157
Every works team should have 3 or 4 cars like ten years ago.
you always interpret so much...no idea why. i never said that they should build a car thats "wrong" and then make it fit to ogier, so for him it is "right" but for no one else or whatever. i only said that ogier can give his input, so the car will be perfect for him. everything else was said by you...Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
[quote="dimviii"]Loeb was the developer for c4 and ds3.If Ogier had drive a prototype ds3 thats not making him a developer.My ''interpretation'' was at your point that '' he is going to develop the polo to suit him''.And that is not something right.Its not right because the challenge is to beat Citroen /Ford and not make a car that suit Ogier.
QUOTE]
The two things you say, building a car to suit ogier, and building a car to beat ford and citroen - IMO, these things are the same. If the car doesnt work for Ogier, he isnt going to win any events anytime soon! Vice-Versa, of course ;)
An example is Mcrae when he joined citroen. he was driving a car that was built around Loeb, ie- Richard Burns style smooth driving. The car wasn't really built for Mcrae's lunacy style driving, and therefor, he diddnt perform.
It will be good if Ogier, Hanninen, Mikkelsen and maybe Neuville are all running sWRC next year with Fabia S2000s which will give VW a good idea of how they stack up. I fear though that Mikkelsen and maybe Neuville are a bit faster than Hanninen and age counts against Juho too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha_Koo
He is someone who definitely deserves a drive somewhere but there are simply not enough seats to go around at the moment.
really?read again your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstar
so of course you said plenty of times that they have to build a car that fits Ogier specific.Something totally wrong.
I had a crazy idea this evening... Ogier in 2012 with a Fabia 1.6T?
I think that project was canned.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Lindstroem
It will be Fabia S2000 and it sounds like maybe some events with the Polo are possible towards the end of the year.
there is no car that works only for specific driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by tfp
No simply McRae was at this time slower ,or couldn t setup his car at Loebs level.Quote:
Originally Posted by tfp
Every rally car is properly designed, can suit every drivers likes.EVERYTHING rally car from last century.
When Finnish TV-channel MTV3 interviewed Kris Nissen he said that in 2013 there will be a 3 car team and from 2014 a 4 car team.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
and i didnt deny that, i can say it again if you like to ;) who cares what others can do with the car, as long as the worksdrivers like it? do you think citroen cares if van merksteijn likes the ds3?Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
but you are talking like i´ve said that ogier is a good developer (witch you obviously dont think), that the car will ONLY fit him and wont work for others, that it will be wrong from the drawing, you explained what developing means for you etc. that all you were interpreting in my sentence "now he can also build this car around him, it will perfectly fit him then".
What does it really mean to develop a car or building it to suit someone? For me it’s to have such construction (e.g. the geometry of the suspension) before homologation that cannot be changed afterwards or done by adjustments.
some mates can t understand the obvious.They still think that cars are build for specific drivers,driving likes etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
This is an interesting thread and I can't resist jumping in...
It seems like you all are basically saying that a newly developed car needs to beat the DS3 and the driver must feel the car well so he can really push it.
The thing that is difficult to get in terms of development is that fo a given rally car, if it is perfect on paper it does not mean that for sure the driver will feel comfortable to push it to the limit. Therefore at some point the engineers need to make "sacrifices" and think of what or how to do so the driver feels extremely confident in the car.
Example: on paper basically if want traction you need very soft suspension on slippery surfaces, with lots of travel. The problem is the super softness takes away from the feeling of the car and for the grip to the driver.
So the development driver needs to know: how a good car is supposed to behave. how to tell his engineer about it.
The engineer needs to know: how to make a good car on paper. then listen to his driver. and know how to interpret and act to what the driver says.
Loeb and his engineers are in perfect osmosis on that domain. For him the car is like his toy. he can do what he wants with it.
Finally someone on here who actually knows what they're talking about!
Ok, thanks. As I understood it in 2013 there will be an official works team with 2 cars and a "Junior" team with 1 car (I expect that "Junior" mens talented driver who also brings sponsors). And I guess that for 2014 that Junior Team will expand to a two car team.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Don't you think the setup will be something like that?
+1. Work between driver and his engineer/mechanics to adjust diffs.suspension/ecu/antilag etc..Not specific builds for a driver,just fine tuning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antony Warmbold
Loix was pretty good doing that at TTE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Very good. Still remember second place at Acropolis 1998.Quote:
Originally Posted by mousti
VW will have a Team 1 Ogier and Mikkelsen and Team 2 will be junior team for 2013 :)
That’s how I interpret it. In 2013 1 junior driver, in 2014 2 junior drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
Skoda should have lot of parts already developed by Impromat for the Fabia R2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Maybe a team with two good drivers who are able to score points and fight for victories (Ogier and Mikkelsen) and a third car for a German talent who might be successful in the future (Wiegand).
As a dutch guy u should better hope on one of your Dutch Young Guns :D
I would have thought Abbring was in a prime position for one of those seats so long as his development continues
Kris Nissen have still almost a year to assess different drivers.
That would be great. Expecialy Kevin Abbring has a great talent. But Volkwagen is surging for a new Walther Rohl.Quote:
Originally Posted by mousti
Speaking of Röhrl, has anyone had a chance to see this Röhrls Katze DVD yet? I'm sure it's good in footage, but how's the English version? Subtitles or dubbed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Luijk
Mikkelsen hará 4 pruebas del WRC junto a Ogier
Mikkelsen will do 4 events as VW factory driver with Ogier. Rest of 9 events the pilot is not known..
i d like to compare them with skodas.Can t wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by mousti
I thought Mikkelsen would also do SWRC besides defending his IRC title? competing for SWRC is taking part in 7 out of 8 rallies
SWRC have its own and very strict testing limits. So, maybe he runs 7 events in SWRC under another team (Skoda UK) and on those 4 events he is part of the official VW team and can test as musch as they dare. That counts 11 events.Quote:
Originally Posted by alleskids
Ypres collides with New Zealand, Yalta collides with GB and Cyprus collides with Spain and Mexico almost collides with Canarias. Mexico ends in the afternoon of 11th of March and it takes quite a long time to get to the airport (from Leon to bigger airport), then to then you loose with time zones and you have to get to Canarias somehow.
So, I quess that he does 7 SWRC events, 4 events with VW team and misses two long haul events: New Zealand and Mexico. Then he has to sacrifice Yalta and Cyprus in IRC
Mikkelsen will do 8 WRC-events for VW in Fabia, all in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by alleskids
They will not do Wales because it collides with Yalta Rally in IRC.
The last WRC-event in Spain collides with Cyprus, they will do Cyprus if they need points in the IRC-end. Spain if not.
Today they moved the date of Spain forward one week.Quote:
Originally Posted by VFTS