it fit, no chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by omer yetis
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it fit, no chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by omer yetis
thought tommi makkinen earlier developed a four wheel drive gt86 and tested?
That was one of his Group N Subaru's, butchered with a GT86 shell over the top, used to demonstrate to Mr Toyoda how exciting Toyota being back in the WRC could be.Quote:
Originally Posted by omer yetis
The team are going to run a Yaris of some sort, confirmed and set in stone.
Which version is unknown as yet, potentially an all-new road going Yaris could be introduced to market in 2017, so I'm interested in see if they use that (may be too soon) or the existing model.
New oneQuote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
Why would factory team build 2017 car from old model, that WRC is marketing tool for them.
Citroen and VW will also build their cars from new road models, not from existing road car.
Part availability.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
What parts? The common parts between a road car and a WRC car is the basic body shell and lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
Those parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Hyundai stated that something like that was part of the reason the new i20 was initially set back.
Just hypothesising. WRC car needs building now to test, new road car 18+months away.
That was more about the production amounts of the standard car.
1.2 Model of car
All the identical cars belonging to a family (see below) and a production series distinguishable by an identical conception and an identical external general lines of the bodywork, and by an identical mechanical conception of the engine and the transmission to the wheels. At least 2500 cars must have been produced in 12 consecutive months. For all cars of the same model, the materials
of the front and rear bumpers must be identical. The same applies for the materials of the boot lid, engine bonnet and front wings, respectively. The bumpers of cars derived from the same model may not include adjustable parts.
1.3 Family of car
Different series models belonging to one and the same production series of the same anufacturer. At least 25000 cars with identical external general lines of the bodywork must have been produced
in 12 consecutive months. The material of the bodywork / shell (including the doors) and the wheelbase must also be identical. All models must be available through the normal commercial
channels of the manufacturer. The general external lines of the bodywork may vary in the
following details:
- shape and material of front and rear bumpers,
- materials of the boot lid, the engine bonnet and the front wings
- removable aerodynamic devices (spoilers, wings, sill mouldings),
- control and comfort equipment (sun roof, auxiliary lamps, door handles, exterior mirrors.),
- decorative strips and mouldings,
- left- and right-hand drive versions,
- 2- and 4-door versions, provided that these differ only with regard to the doors, door openings and B-pillar. Models with a cylinder capacity greater than 2 litres may possibly be counted for establishing the family.
PAAVO/PanteAlex @PanteAlex 10h10 hours agoView translation
Toyota @ksmlfi today: Homeplace Puuppola!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWzIXCaWcAAzWxb.jpg
PAAVO/PanteAlex @PanteAlex 4h4 hours agoJyväskylä, Suomi
At least 5y in WRC for @TOYOTA_GR Goal is to be same level than Tommi himself and he is 4x World Champion!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CW0f8rBWcAAiPLM.jpg
Can´t you finnish guys tell Tommi to hire Emil Bergkvist? Better driver for the future he cant find and we know it all of us. Skills on all surfaces, even tarmac.
Why destroy Bergkvist career like that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
We know by now Per, no need to remind us every week ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I would suggest Tommi to start negotiation with the slower one from pair Lappi -Tidemand. The faster one would receive seat in VW but the slower one would receive contract from Skoda or even something less.
Reminding wouldn´t be a problem. Problem is no one seems to care about the most talented atm. Or maybe things happen though we don´t see them yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
As Tommi has to handle his money very carefully that option seems to me much more expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
I don't think that the manufacturer who sell more cars in the entire world could have some problem to pay Lappi or Tidemand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
In that case I cant see the choices already done.
yes but it's not a matter of money.
Ooiki doki.
They doesn't have to be...many things can happen to top drivers during '16 season. Latvala can get fed up with his 2nd driver status, Ogier can become greedy and find Yens more appealing than Euros, Neuville can slam Hyundai's door...the best is wait to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
And Makinen already has a strong test driver line up to developed the car during next year.
Autosport article is pure silly season BS.
Rally Finland boss joins Toyota?
http://www.hs.fi/m/urheilu/a14507623...6&ref=tw-share
It really seems like its going to be a big Finnish party.
I think all this back and forth with Tommi is just a ruse so that he can announce himself as the driver for 2017.
The way the team shapes up now seems it will be like a private effort with some nobodies in, it will be a miracle if they manage to complete a whole season, IF they enter that is.
Well on the other hand the worlds biggest car manufactorer chose not to use the state of the art motorsport factory they own themselves(Köln) but went with an option to make the WRC effort in a small garage in Finland with 0 infrastrucure and little knowhow. I`m just saying they have made stranger decisions...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Why would Köln be a good rally base?Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
In Finland they have a unique access to roads for testing just metres from the factory. Its like Ferrari whith its own race track, which was a huge advantage, and ultimatly lead to a very strict ban on testing.
And why is it wrong to hire a very experienced leader of the Finnish motorsport association, the association wich i believe has been instrumental in generating the most motorsport world champions pr capita, and organizing the most successfull WRC round on the calendar?
The Finns are a very clever and recoursfull people that among other things built the worlds largest mobile phone company from almost nothing. Nokia made as large a dent in the universe as apple did years later.
And Finns have something very important called Sisu (and Im not talking about the truck).
Finland is the rally capitol of the World, and I find it very strange that several forum members find it strange to base a rally effort there. :)
Another Nissan.....???
Testing advantage is interesting topic and I am not most qualified one to analyze it. I know that M-Sport has it's own test track next to factory and I feel that that is the way every team should go - in addition of having on-site tests on actual roads. But I believe we have more knowledgeable members who can prove me wrong in this subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
In fact, Finnish ASN has relatively little to do with Finnish WRC Champions. Mr Jouhki has done more to this end, as Kankkunen and Makinen (4 titles each) both owe much if not everything to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
It was but is no longer as French have taken (or stolen) the scepter from Finns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
[QUOTE=Lundefaret;1075018]Why would Köln be a good rally base?
This is why https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktAOZpKzenM ;)
Okay I'll admit it, I've never run a WRC team. But having Finnish gravel roads on your doorstep is great - if you want to set your car up for Finnish gravel roads.
There's a reason WRC teams test all over Europe, on old stages, in the region of the rally. So I think simply saying they have amazing gravel roads on their doorstep is not enough, and certainly doesn't outweigh all the positives and infrastructure TMG already has set up.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Toyota Gazoo Racing have now about 70 employees of which about 40 are working in Finland and the rest in Germany and England.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/tommi_makinen_...spomon/8549169
About the testing I’m quoting (and repeating)myself.
Post #809 in this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
[QUOTE=AMSS;1075025]Good cooperator under the umbrella of Toyota. For example enginedeveloping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
No problems having the team in Finland. Why shouldn´t it? If there were one idealic place everone should be there, yes? M-Sport in Cumbria? Nah. The whole bunch can´t be in Germany or France if other factors matters more, like in this case.
At this regard I keep asking myself why, if TMG was not doing the job Toyoda wanted, they didn't decide to change some of the people and or managers at TMG keeping the structure and some valuable worker and maybe sending there Tommi Makkinen and some of his fellows friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Finnish gravel roads ar not just "Finnish gravel roads." They have huge differences in character, just drive Ouininpuhja and You'll see that even there it changes a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
And Finnish gravel roads have another advantage, there are ha HUGE number of them close to the factory.
As I have understood it the person in question has had a big role in the Finnish WRC round, which is by far the most succesfull in the WRC. That can't be bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
Timo Jouhki has off course been important for several Finnish Champions (but not all). But whit out the work of the Finnish ASN it would be no rally drivers to choose from. Timo Joukhi doesn't arrange rallies, get volunteers to be time keepers, arrange parking on rally events, see that there are regulations like the popular Group F that promotes rally (or ralli) as a big sport, etc etc.
Both the Finnish ASN and the organisers are very important, and they have done a really really good job.
Not by a mile. Finland is the only country in the World where Rally is seen as a national sport. The only two countries I can think of that actually come close is Barbados and Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
Though France has had two great champions, rally by no means a competitor of bigger sports like soccer.
Finland is the rally capital of the world, and by being that, and a country that can manage huge technological engineering feats (like Nokia), Finland can be a great place to run a rally team from.
Finland the rally capital? Nokia? It's 2015, not 2004. :)
TMG went rouge, and thats the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Trough F1, LeMans they have showed that they can use huge budgets, whit out winning titles.
According to Flavio Briatore they have a huge problem in how they opperate.
The TMG rally project did not have central backing, and it was clear by several statements from Toyoda that TMG was operating against his wishes.
I think the reason that TMG was dropped also was because Toyoda wants a more hands on approach to this project, and that is very difficult with a huge organisation as TMG.
I think Lundefarat explained quite well why it can be considered the rally capital.Quote:
Originally Posted by EightGear
Also there's no reason to downplay Nokia. Yes, the mobile phone business went down hill and they sold the loss making phone unit to Microsoft, but they've kept the far more lucrative unit.
And the Nokia cellphone comback will happen in 2016, with Android and not Symbian OS.
Maybe also one with Sailfish OS?
Nokia will hit back hard, now that they are free from Microsoft!!!
When Toyoda wants Gazoo Rally in Finland, and not with the racing arm in Germany, he probably has his reasons.
Really? I could also say that Portugal is the world capital of rally because 'Rallye de Portugal' is the greater sport event hold in our country...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Franky
Let's be serious: Finland is one of the greater rally nations; modern rallying is deeply linked with Finland and all those glorious drivers from the 70's and 80's made an outstanding footprint, but rally history doesn't start there and Finland never got a heavy desition power in rally world.
France still is the world capital of rally. From their heritage but also from their permanent contribution to the sport. No other country has all their manus involved in rally sport (in FIA champs or simply providing cars and services to rally costumers). It's (probably) the country with larger number of rallies per season (from regional level to WRC) and the greater degree of participation (200 entries are common in frech rally champ events). Also, no other country got CSI/FIA leadership during so long.
It's true that for some time Brits managed to get rallyworld leardership (like German are nowadays attempting) but French always kept their rulling power. I believe they will continue to.
PS: to all the Toy/Makinen critics: it's unfair to prejudge in such a negative way the team capacity before they even start rallying, and it's ridiculous to say that TMG is more capable; since F1 days they're a white elephant in Toyota's living room and probably, if they don't get a Le Mans win in a near future, they can end in a bad way...
Mery Christmans to all!
I genuinely think Toyoda made his decision because Tommi convinced him that his way (smaller, more hands on, family team) is better. And now we have to wait and see (and hope) that Tommi was right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland