Kimi's future - No racing in 2010?

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22nd November 2009, 18:53
pettersolberg29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

The only bitterness we have here is your bitterness that McLaren Mercedes dumped useless Heidfeld and bought Kimi instead back in 2001. :rotflmao: Talk about being a fanboy.
As for sarcasm, yes, I admit to being guilty of that. Stupidity of some people often brings that side of me up.

Ouch
22nd November 2009, 19:20
pino

Let's quit personal comments/attacks...thank you!
22nd November 2009, 19:30
pettersolberg29

I appreciate that you're a moderator and that you have a responsibility, but it was only a bit of banter. We were still discussing F1 more than anything else.
22nd November 2009, 20:19
PSfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Than why didn't they accept what McLaren proposed to them? Let us know when you find some SF answer to this question.

I thought the answer was pretty clear. McLeran offered Kimi probably the same $ that Button offered to drive for, and Kimi would make more money sitting at home thanks to Ferrari.

If McLeran had the Budget, they should have ignored the money Ferrari where paying kimi and offered what he was worth which would be probably in the 8-10mil range instead of thinking they could get a deal because Kimi was already being paid. But as it stands McLerans is probably already paying more on Hamilton + Button then they have ever paid for 2 drivers, one has to assume they didn't really have the money to give Kimi what he wanted.
22nd November 2009, 22:03
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

You still have not shown us the logic why Kimi would say he is only interested in McLaren (ruling him out of other options), while according to you, he is afraid of Hamilton and does not want to team up with him.
Explain that.

You want me to explain something I already explained but you wouldn't explain your part? Nice try.
22nd November 2009, 22:08
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSfan

I thought the answer was pretty clear. McLeran offered Kimi probably the same $ that Button offered to drive for, and Kimi would make more money sitting at home thanks to Ferrari.

If McLeran had the Budget, they should have ignored the money Ferrari where paying kimi and offered what he was worth which would be probably in the 8-10mil range instead of thinking they could get a deal because Kimi was already being paid. But as it stands McLerans is probably already paying more on Hamilton + Button then they have ever paid for 2 drivers, one has to assume they didn't really have the money to give Kimi what he wanted.

I don't think money was the problem, IMO Kimi would have lost too Lewis and he and Robertson know this so they saved face asking for an insane amount of money (for a driver who didn't prove much the last couple of seasons, while continuing to say that they would like to get a contract with McLaren.

Any driver who gets beaten by his team mate loses market value and that's something the manager doesn't want to happen. What I don't understand is why Kimi didn't chose himself to drive for McLaren for the millions they offered him when he already got plenty of money from Ferrari?!
22nd November 2009, 22:09
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by pettersolberg29

If you want me to drive for McLaren, possibly the best team in F1, for minimum wage then I'll be there. Its not exactly as if they offered him a pittance is it? It would have been at least 5/6 million, yes million, euros.

Totally agree.
22nd November 2009, 22:17
Valve Bounce

I just wonder whether McLaren felt that Bunsen might be the better team mate for Lewis than Kimi.
22nd November 2009, 22:44
PSfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

I don't think money was the problem, IMO Kimi would have lost too Lewis and he and Robertson know this so they saved face asking for an insane amount of money (for a driver who didn't prove much the last couple of seasons, while continuing to say that they would like to get a contract with McLaren.

I'm inclined to go with Gerry on this, Lewis is a constant at McLeran so why would Kimi's team mention that it was McLeran or nothing prior to the Mercedes announcement. And we will never know what Kimi's insane asking price, we do know Button signed for less then what Kimi would have to sign for to break even with what Ferrari are paying for him to stay home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Any driver who gets beaten by his team mate loses market value and that's something the manager doesn't want to happen. What I don't understand is why Kimi didn't chose himself to drive for McLaren for the millions they offered him when he already got plenty of money from Ferrari?!

I really don't think being beat by Lewis would have been much concern for Kimi. He didn't seem fazed much by being out-performed by Massa. One could say why ask for more money from McLeran when he was already getting alot of money from Ferrari, but thats a pretty simple explanation. the Ferrari money is a one year deal only... so as it stands in 2010 Kimi will be making $17 mil to stay home or would have made $16 mil to race at McLeran. But come 2011 it would be harder to ask for his true market value after he accepted only $6mil from McLeran
22nd November 2009, 23:59
jas123f1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Than why didn't they accept what McLaren proposed to them? Let us know when you find some SF answer to this question.

I think the problem is that Ferrari pays Kimi 17 million if he DON'T drive next season, but "only" 10 million if he participate in some team in F1..

So the new team must pay 7 million or Kimi "lose" money – and if the McLaren offer was 5 million as rumours tells - then that would be 2 million $ minus for Kimi, I think that’s the main reason for the idea to go to Rally next season. Kimi like F1 but also Rally.. Maybe he thinks that let Ferrari pay - Kimi didn't like to leave Ferrari - but when the Santander was there their money and Ferrari kick out their latest Champion (for money) so let them pay - 17 million dollar. Kimi is a big talent and the best paid driver on the greed - but he can’t drive. Thanks to Ferrari..

Now it looks that people in Mercedes GP are interested of Kimi - maybe - (and Norbert Haug and Kimi know each other very well) under thus conditions – maybe it’s possible to make a construction where a good result for Kimi also pays him that much that he gets his money. I think the car is no problem; it should fit Kimi very well.

But everything tells that Kimi doesn’t drive F1 next season.. Rally – possible, I would like to see him in F1 but Rally with Kimi would be interesting as well.

:)
23rd November 2009, 00:51
keysersoze

If Kimi doesn't race F1 next season it is very likely that his value will go down significantly. And, as for the guys who win the 17 or so races up for grabs next season? Well, their values will go up.

If Kimi is concerned about money he best race next season. So what if he "loses" 2 million by racing--he stands to win races (and increase or maintain his market value) if he continues with Brawn.
23rd November 2009, 06:52
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSfan

I really don't think being beat by Lewis would have been much concern for Kimi.

I disagree. In 2008, when Massa startet to outperform him, on occasions his driving seemed frustrated and erratic, although he as usual didn't express it outside the cockpit. IMO Jenson tooked the beating from Rubens better and kept his cool.
23rd November 2009, 09:56
jas123f1

Quote:

Originally Posted by keysersoze

If Kimi doesn't race F1 next season it is very likely that his value will go down significantly. And, as for the guys who win the 17 or so races up for grabs next season? Well, their values will go up.

If Kimi is concerned about money he best race next season. So what if he "loses" 2 million by racing--he stands to win races (and increase or maintain his market value) if he continues with Brawn.

Sure, it's a possibility – but there are many rumours in the air just now so let’s see and wait.. :)
23rd November 2009, 11:37
jas123f1

Now when it's official that Nico is clear to Mercedes - the question is who will the other?

I would like to see Kimi there - Nico and Kimi = "Dream team"..
23rd November 2009, 12:32
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

You want me to explain something I already explained but you wouldn't explain your part? Nice try.

You have not explained anything.
Let me try again.

Why did Kimi and The Robertsons say in public that McLaren is the only option for them, when they were in your view afraid of Hamilton?
23rd November 2009, 12:58
jas123f1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

I have a feeling that Robertson/Kimi didn't want to go head to head with Lewis in the same car.
Maybe they don't want Kimi's market value to drop even further if he is beaten again by a team mate...

Really :)
I can see that you like Kimi - must be be your faforite driver :) ..
23rd November 2009, 16:11
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

I don't think money was the problem, IMO Kimi would have lost too Lewis and he and Robertson know this so they saved face asking for an insane amount of money (for a driver who didn't prove much the last couple of seasons, while continuing to say that they would like to get a contract with McLaren.

Any driver who gets beaten by his team mate loses market value and that's something the manager doesn't want to happen. What I don't understand is why Kimi didn't chose himself to drive for McLaren for the millions they offered him when he already got plenty of money from Ferrari?!

I don't think Kimi is afraid of Lewis, or anything for that matter, He just doesn't seem to think that way. IMO there was something else in the negotiations (unknown for us) that stopped the deal from getting done. Maybe indeed the Robertsons were to blame or Kimi had personal issues with people in the team. Who knows?
23rd November 2009, 16:47
Rallyper

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas123f1

Now when it's official that Nico is clear to Mercedes - the question is who will the other?

I would like to see Kimi there - Nico and Kimi = "Dream team"..

Well, that will Nick Heidfeldt isn´t it?

So then Kimi can go on and be a world rally championship driver! :cool:
23rd November 2009, 16:52
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

I don't think Kimi is afraid of Lewis, or anything for that matter, He just doesn't seem to think that way. IMO there was something else in the negotiations (unknown for us) that stopped the deal from getting done. Maybe indeed the Robertsons were to blame or Kimi had personal issues with people in the team. Who knows?

If there are personal issues, Kimi said some bad things about Ron, that he is control freak or something. Maybe Ron interfered.
23rd November 2009, 18:46
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Thats never a good tactic to speak ill about your ex boss publically IMO. You never know what your options are going to be further down the line. I forgive Kimi, but then again who am I? :)

:eek: Are you implying that Ron would rather have Jenson instead of Kimi just because Kimi dared to say the truth about Ron being a control freak?!
24th November 2009, 06:54
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

:eek: Are you implying that Ron would rather have Jenson instead of Kimi just because Kimi dared to say the truth about Ron being a control freak?!

If you have two champions, it'd be better to hire one, who claims good will to the team and is not grudgingly returning. I like Kimi very much, but it was very stupid to bash McLaren and Ron.
24th November 2009, 12:07
Rallyper

Rumours in Norway today says that Petter Solberg has confirmed that talks is going on with Kimi to join PSWRT in 2010. :D

That would be a two car team and Kimi expects to drive a S2000 car.

(That is doubted by me personally - Kimi wants to drive a WRC car to be able to win - even though he probably can win the S2000-class if it will be a competitionclass)
25th November 2009, 02:03
jas123f1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallyper

Rumours in Norway today says that Petter Solberg has confirmed that talks is going on with Kimi to join PSWRT in 2010. :D

That would be a two car team and Kimi expects to drive a S2000 car.

(That is doubted by me personally - Kimi wants to drive a WRC car to be able to win - even though he probably can win the S2000-class if it will be a competitionclass)

There are also rumours that Red Bull want to pay Kimi a year i WCR - and then take him to Red Bull F1 team 2011. I can believe that's true - maybe.. ?? and in other hand - Kimi should be perfect to Peters team – with little help from former finish WRC – champions.. like Tommy and Marcus .. can everything happen.. :)
25th November 2009, 03:50
Koz

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas123f1

There are also rumours that Red Bull want to pay Kimi a year i WCR - and then take him to Red Bull F1 team 2011. I can believe that's true - maybe.. ?? and in other hand - Kimi should be perfect to Peters team – with little help from former finish WRC – champions.. like Tommy and Marcus .. can everything happen.. :)

Is Tommi building the cars? They say Marcus is interested in driving in Petter's team if there is a budget?
Kimi, Marcus and Petter would surely bring in more than enough money and PR. Would be very interesting, but Marcus will beat Petter and both will utterly destroy Kimi, not sure he wants that...

But I agree, he will probably go RB and Citroen.
25th November 2009, 08:48
Dzeidzei

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

If you have two champions, it'd be better to hire one, who claims good will to the team and is not grudgingly returning. I like Kimi very much, but it was very stupid to bash McLaren and Ron.

This was only hearsay, altho its very likely Kimi has said something along these lines. However I dont think you´ll find a link to a direct quote from Kimi.
25th November 2009, 08:51
Dzeidzei

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallyper

Rumours in Norway today says that Petter Solberg has confirmed that talks is going on with Kimi to join PSWRT in 2010. :D

That would be a two car team and Kimi expects to drive a S2000 car.

(That is doubted by me personally - Kimi wants to drive a WRC car to be able to win - even though he probably can win the S2000-class if it will be a competitionclass)

Those are no rumours. Finnish tv interviewed Petter ages ago (well, several weeks ago) and then he admitted having these talks with Kimi.

I do hope for the sake of F1 Kimi takes the Merc option. It would in effect make 2010 the mother of all seasons with Lewis, Jenson, Felipe, Freddie, Seb, Mark, Noci and Kimi all fighting head to head. Somehow I feel that if you take Kimi out of that equation you do loose quite a bit.
25th November 2009, 08:52
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

I disagree. In 2008, when Massa startet to outperform him, on occasions his driving seemed frustrated and erratic, although he as usual didn't express it outside the cockpit. IMO Jenson tooked the beating from Rubens better and kept his cool.

That is pure speculation, since as you said we really don't know what's going on in his head. Another possibility was that his driving seemed frustrated since the car wasn't to his liking which we know was the case at least sometimes.
25th November 2009, 10:18
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

but it sent out the message that the team were 100% behind Massa because by this point

I highly doubt that Ferrari were favouring Massa when they were paying Kimi far more to drive the same car. If Kimi was the "number two" driver, he would have been paid far less. Kimi came to Ferrari to take over where Schumi left off.

Massa adapted well to the new car, Kimi did not.
25th November 2009, 10:33
bontebempo

not sure if its been said yet but good riddance to the little money grabbing twat. He did nothing for the many F1 fans out there. At least when he was good he entertained us in that way.

Dull boring little twat! Please don't come back!
25th November 2009, 10:39
henners88

Quote:

Originally Posted by bontebempo

not sure if its been said yet but good riddance to the little money grabbing twat. He did nothing for the many F1 fans out there. At least when he was good he entertained us in that way.

Dull boring little twat! Please don't come back!

You're right it hasn't been said before because most of the people here analyse a drivers ability based on circumstances and not whilst holding a beer in their hand and flicking back and forth from the football. ;)
25th November 2009, 10:49
Dzeidzei

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I highly doubt that Ferrari were favouring Massa when they were paying Kimi far more to drive the same car. If Kimi was the "number two" driver, he would have been paid far less.

Well, Ferrari is paying Kimi well over 10million for NOT driving the car.
25th November 2009, 12:27
JRodrigues

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I highly doubt that Ferrari were favouring Massa when they were paying Kimi far more to drive the same car. If Kimi was the "number two" driver, he would have been paid far less. Kimi came to Ferrari to take over where Schumi left off.

Massa adapted well to the new car, Kimi did not.

Do you know the Pearl Jam song "Nothing as it seems"?
25th November 2009, 12:29
JRodrigues

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Indeed, Ferrari introduced significant changes to their 2008 machine which were not taylored to Kimi's liking. Infact Kimi's manager had to get involved to demand that earlier versions were re-installed to suit him better. His performance improved considerably towards the end of the season, but it sent out the message that the team were 100% behind Massa because by this point, he was a contender for the title. Its too easy to scream lack of motivation when not understanding all the facts IMO...

Kimi was one of the drivers of the season for me this year, and was matching the pace of Massa before his accident. A series of bad decisions on strategy, notably Maylasia when he pitted for wet tires on a dry track, and teething problems with KERS when he was the sole driver in the team using the device early on, put him a few points behind Massa. By the time Massa had his season ended prematurely, it looked on paper like Kimi was the worst driver which evidently wasn't the case... :)

100% behind you on that.
25th November 2009, 14:42
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzeidzei

Well, Ferrari is paying Kimi well over 10million for NOT driving the car.

And if I had the spare cash lying around I would have paid him 100 million for him to not drive the car.
25th November 2009, 14:44
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRodrigues

Do you know the Pearl Jam song "Nothing as it seems"?

Do you know the song "What are you on about"?
25th November 2009, 14:49
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Thats a little unfair on Massa though isn't it? :p

Who said life was fair :p :
25th November 2009, 16:08
bontebempo

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

You're right it hasn't been said before because most of the people here analyse a drivers ability based on circumstances and not whilst holding a beer in their hand and flicking back and forth from the football. ;)

well most of the people here have too much time on their hands. Short and sweet fact!
25th November 2009, 16:17
henners88

Well there we are then. :wave:
25th November 2009, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Indeed, Ferrari introduced significant changes to their 2008 machine which were not taylored to Kimi's liking. Infact Kimi's manager had to get involved to demand that earlier versions were re-installed to suit him better. His performance improved considerably towards the end of the season, but it sent out the message that the team were 100% behind Massa because by this point, he was a contender for the title. Its too easy to scream lack of motivation when not understanding all the facts IMO...

So, if it wasn't a lack of motivation, what was it that made Kimi allow such a situation to develop whereby car-changes suited Massa and he needed his manager to help him?

A lack of guts?

I can't imagine Lewis or Fernando being so gutless.

Kimi was paid to be a team leader. To allow his team-mate to dominate the garage, especially when that team-mate is Massa, not exactly the toughest nut, is a dereliction of his contractual obligations. He was lucky to get a pay-off, since I'd have sacked him the day he let Massa get the better of him.
25th November 2009, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

You mention that you can't imagine Fernando being so "gutless", but when we look back to 2007 where Lewis dominated the Mclaren team in his rookie year against a hardened WDC, then theres your example.

Except that's a crap example, as Fernando did everything in his power to gain the upper hand, or at least a semblance of parity. That he failed wasn't through a lack of trying.

Kimi, on the other hand, ate a fecking ice cream.

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