The Ferrari thread !

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27th May 2010, 10:13
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by eu

What about him?

He's losing his hair?
27th May 2010, 10:46
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by eu

How about this year? Aren't your 2 words still there?

So they must dominate every year then :?:
27th May 2010, 11:01
Big Ben

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

So they must dominate every year then :?:

I don't know, you tell me. He's not MY super hero. They've dominated half a season and everybody knows why... when the money was gone and everybody started exploiting the loopholes in the regulations they've turned back into the Honda we all used to know. He's hugely over-rated. I think he's very good but not brilliant.
27th May 2010, 11:18
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by eu

I don't know, you tell me. He's not MY super hero. They've dominated half a season and everybody knows why... when the money was gone and everybody started exploiting the loopholes in the regulations they've turned back into the Honda we all used to know. He's hugely over-rated. I think he's very good but not brilliant.

We on Brawn still are we. He is a manager and a strategist but not a designer per se.

Time and again we have seen in F1 that when there is a title fight, the protagonist teams often suffer the following year as resources are diverted and put into winning the championship. Often, this is to the detriment of the following year's car.

Brawn is good, but he is not a miracle worker.
27th May 2010, 18:24
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

True. But they didn't have the same amount of resources (and money) to develop this year's car which kind of supports "my" theory...

Absolutely. The 2009 Honda F1 car has been develop since April 2010 and did cost approx. 700 million Euros, they used 3 wind tunnels 700 people in Brackley and Japan and had 3 different chassis developed.
Alone their budget was twice that of either Toyota, Ferrari and McLaren.
27th May 2010, 21:34
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Indeed. Alot of fans seem to forget Brawn is not a designer and much of the success throughout his career was achieved as part of a great technical team. Rory Bryne was a major factor in delivering performance on track, combined with Brawn's strategic mind, which was often overlooked. The same can be said for Adrian Newey who has a brilliant directive mindset, but is still only a component in a strong team at present.

Newey may only be a component as you rightfully say but I and many others, I'm sure, are willing to bet that if Newey suddenly left Red Bull, things wouldn't be so rosy, in a, let's say, year and a half. Williams 96-97 comes to mind. They lost Newey in 96 and 97 they were not as dominant as before and 98 they were at sea.
28th May 2010, 11:21
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by eu

I don't know, you tell me. He's not MY super hero. They've dominated half a season and everybody knows why... when the money was gone and everybody started exploiting the loopholes in the regulations they've turned back into the Honda we all used to know. He's hugely over-rated. I think he's very good but not brilliant.

1. His record speaks for itself, he's brilliant at getting things done, whether he designs a car or not, he gets the guys that can design cars, perform etc.

2. Take off your blinkers. Mercedes GP is not "the Honda we all used to know". They are one of the top 3 or 4 teams this season.
28th May 2010, 11:23
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

We on Brawn still are we. He is a manager and a strategist but not a designer per se.

Thats why he is such a good manager/team principal. He gets the right people for the job and delivers results. Thats what counts and why I rate him so highly. He is also very calculating and has a pretty steady head.
28th May 2010, 18:38
Tazio

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/g...may/049wri.jpg

http://i69.servimg.com/u/f69/14/79/55/26/15481010.jpg

The second pic is of Ferraris’ enlarged diffuser(new upgrade)I think it together with the top pic of rear wing stall device duct, looks to me like they have form fitted the body work in that area a little bit more, and tightened its @$$ up a la Red Bull!
28th May 2010, 19:03
Big Ben

How I hate this wagon station look! I know noone´s here for the looks but it looks just horrible.
31st May 2010, 18:59
jens

Ferrari has something to think about after the Turkish Grand Prix. In the race they might have had the third fastest car (in the last few years Ferrari has had a tendency to be more competitive in race trim anyway), but due to traffic we never had the opportunity to see that. Considering circuit characteristics I'd expect Ferrari to be stronger at Valencia and Montreal, but they seem to have an obvious deepening aerodynamical deficit. A consequence of the sacking of Iley?
31st May 2010, 20:33
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by jens

Ferrari has something to think about after the Turkish Grand Prix. In the race they might have had the third fastest car (in the last few years Ferrari has had a tendency to be more competitive in race trim anyway), but due to traffic we never had the opportunity to see that. Considering circuit characteristics I'd expect Ferrari to be stronger at Valencia and Montreal, but they seem to have an obvious deepening aerodynamical deficit. A consequence of the sacking of Iley?

I think the fault lies in stefano. They are getting worse all the time. They dumped kimi and hired Alonso, because he was supposed to lead the team and every other crap like that. Reality has been different. Driver`s job is to drive, the leading is up to guys like Stefano. But he is failing at that job.

Ferrari is not the same team it was back when Jean Todt was the boss, Stefano is a nobody. But hey Luca, you just keep hiring italians and things will only get better.
Because I despise Ferrari after their treatment of Schumacher, Todt and Raikkonen, I am taking massive enjoyment from this. All we need is Massa to leave Ferrari too and I wont have anything that I like about that team.
31st May 2010, 21:49
Big Ben

Thanks for sharing. Any veterinary psychiatrist to give the man an advice?
31st May 2010, 21:59
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by eu

Thanks for sharing.

You are welcome.

Quote:

Any veterinary psychiatrist to give the man an advice?

Hey, I found a video of your recent family get-together on youtube. Let me share it with the kind people here :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daYvNM2IuOg
31st May 2010, 23:12
i_max2k2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

I think the fault lies in stefano. They are getting worse all the time. They dumped kimi and hired Alonso, because he was supposed to lead the team and every other crap like that. Reality has been different. Driver`s job is to drive, the leading is up to guys like Stefano. But he is failing at that job.

Ferrari is not the same team it was back when Jean Todt was the boss, Stefano is a nobody. But hey Luca, you just keep hiring italians and things will only get better.
Because I despise Ferrari after their treatment of Schumacher, Todt and Raikkonen, I am taking massive enjoyment from this. All we need is Massa to leave Ferrari too and I wont have anything that I like about that team.

That pretty much sums up my feeling for Ferrari, Massa is the only person I like in Ferrari, and right now , they don't seem in a rush to have him, once he's gone I doubt I'll have anything in the team that I like, Stefano seems more arrogant than people who have been massively more successful than him. And on Brawn, he is probably the best strategist in F-1 right now.
1st June 2010, 08:59
Shalafi

How can Ferrari go backwards when they have this amazing car-improver, Alonso?! They got rid of Kimi who couldnt develop the car. But now...really, really strange...this has to be a some kind of conspiracy!!
1st June 2010, 09:18
jens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shalafi

How can Ferrari go backwards when they have this amazing car-improver, Alonso?! They got rid of Kimi who couldnt develop the car. But now...really, really strange...this has to be a some kind of conspiracy!!

Let's add to this that after Alonso has left Renault, the yellow-painted cars have made significant leaps forward and keep improving all the time, now having matched Ferrari in the last two weekends. Guess Alonso forgot his 0,6s to McLaren, so despite costing them 100M $ the last man to laugh is Ron Dennis. :p :
1st June 2010, 09:59
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by jens

Let's add to this that after Alonso has left Renault, the yellow-painted cars have made significant leaps forward and keep improving all the time, now having matched Ferrari in the last two weekends. Guess Alonso forgot his 0,6s to McLaren, so despite costing them 100M $ the last man to laugh is Ron Dennis. :p :

I think the man who is laughing the most is one Kimi Räikkönen. He gets the money and doesn't have to spend another year driving an uncompetitive car and listening to constant undeserved insults from the Italian press.
1st June 2010, 11:41
Rodster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

I think the fault lies in stefano. They are getting worse all the time. They dumped kimi and hired Alonso, because he was supposed to lead the team and every other crap like that. Reality has been different. Driver`s job is to drive, the leading is up to guys like Stefano. But he is failing at that job.

Ferrari is not the same team it was back when Jean Todt was the boss, Stefano is a nobody. But hey Luca, you just keep hiring italians and things will only get better.
Because I despise Ferrari after their treatment of Schumacher, Todt and Raikkonen, I am taking massive enjoyment from this. All we need is Massa to leave Ferrari too and I wont have anything that I like about that team.

I also think the problem is Stefano. A really nice guy but he looks totally lost at his job. I always get the impression he is 100% in react mode to what the other teams are doing, rather than confidently building a winning car. What's puzzling is, wasn't he Jean Todt's protege or maybe Luca Di Montezemolo forced Jean's hand on that one? But the problem really lies with the arrogant SOB by the name of Luca Di Montezemolo. He is the one who thinks it was him all along who turned around Ferrari's fortunes in the mid to late 90's.

Ferrari has not learned from it's past mistakes when it too at one time was basically the National Italian race team. It was in a rut until Brawn, Todt and an unknown driver (insert sarcasm) by the name of Schumacher showed up to turn around their fortunes.

Luca deserves everything bad that has recently happened to Ferrari since he pushed aside Brawn, Todt and Schumacher.
1st June 2010, 11:44
Rodster

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_max2k2

That pretty much sums up my feeling for Ferrari, Massa is the only person I like in Ferrari, and right now , they don't seem in a rush to have him, once he's gone I doubt I'll have anything in the team that I like, Stefano seems more arrogant than people who have been massively more successful than him. And on Brawn, he is probably the best strategist in F-1 right now.

Stefano has never come across to me as arrogant rather, just a nice guy. Now if you want to talk arrogant look no further than the President of Ferrari, Luca Di Montezemolo. He gives arrogance, new meaning.
1st June 2010, 12:18
ShiftingGears

I don't dislike Stefano but he really isn't good enough at his job.

Di Montezemolo on the other hand - I will find it very amusing when he next throws a TV out of the window due to a Ferrari failure. I don't think highly of him.
1st June 2010, 13:10
F1boat

When the ban is over, hire Flavio. Many people dislike him, but he will get the job done.
1st June 2010, 13:19
Rodster

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

When the ban is over, hire Flavio. Many people dislike him, but he will get the job done.

Please god NO !

I never want to hear the words uttered in a sentence "The Flamboyant Italian" ever again.
1st June 2010, 13:21
Rodster

Quote:

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

I don't dislike Stefano but he really isn't good enough at his job.

Di Montezemolo on the other hand - I will find it very amusing when he next throws a TV out of the window due to a Ferrari failure. I don't think highly of him.

Few think very highly of him. Max Mosley thought even less of him.
1st June 2010, 15:25
Roamy

Flavio and TAD back to Ferrari - Now that could prove to be exciting!!
1st June 2010, 17:24
Rodster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roamy

Flavio and TAD back to Ferrari - Now that could prove to be exciting!!

Who's TAD?
1st June 2010, 17:42

As soon as Ron Dennis said he liked Domenicali, that was the sign that he wasn't the man for the job.
1st June 2010, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodster

Who's TAD?

One of the men losers blame for making them losers.
1st June 2010, 18:10
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

One of the men losers blame for making them losers.

A bloke then, that narrows it down a bit very helpful

Welcome back by the way, how was the yacht?
1st June 2010, 18:22

http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/cref-czatad.html

Oh, the yacht is very nice. Portofino is beautiful at this time of the year.
1st June 2010, 19:14
Firstgear

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

When the ban is over, hire Flavio. Many people dislike him, but he will get the job done.

Isn't it a lifetime ban?

No use hiring him after the ban, if so.
1st June 2010, 20:45
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

I think the fault lies in stefano. They are getting worse all the time. They dumped kimi and hired Alonso, because he was supposed to lead the team and every other crap like that. Reality has been different. Driver`s job is to drive, the leading is up to guys like Stefano. But he is failing at that job.

Ferrari is not the same team it was back when Jean Todt was the boss, Stefano is a nobody. But hey Luca, you just keep hiring italians and things will only get better.
Because I despise Ferrari after their treatment of Schumacher, Todt and Raikkonen, I am taking massive enjoyment from this. All we need is Massa to leave Ferrari too and I wont have anything that I like about that team.

:up:

Same here.
1st June 2010, 20:53
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firstgear

Isn't it a lifetime ban?

No use hiring him after the ban, if so.

It was overturned, the ban is now only until 2013, sadly. However with a bit of luck maybe some Italian prosecutor gets him a fresh place soon.
2nd June 2010, 07:42
Big Ben

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

It was overturned, the ban is now only until 2013, sadly. However with a bit of luck maybe some Italian prosecutor gets him a fresh place soon.

I really hate to do this but you're not allowed to post here anymore. Read the first post. Please spit your venom somewhere else. Have a nice day.
2nd June 2010, 07:47
Roamy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodster

Who's TAD?

If you do not know who TAD is you should not be on this forum. You are hereby sentenced to 1 week research of F1 - now get going and come back when you know
2nd June 2010, 08:53
Retro Formula 1

Ferrari do seem to be in a difficult place at the moment. Alonso is not too happy in the team and Massa similarly unsettled.

Whilst the electronics genius may help them out of a short term hole, they need stronger direction and leadership more than anything. I don't think Alonso is the second coming of Schumacher as some expected and will notbe able to unite the team.
2nd June 2010, 10:20
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roamy

If you do not know who TAD is you should not be on this forum. You are hereby sentenced to 1 week research of F1 - now get going and come back when you know

Tamb has kindly posted a link above.

It would have been better if the initial reference to the chaps' name had not been in all uppercase, as TAD suggests initials for an organisation, whereas Tad suggests a persons name.
2nd June 2010, 10:22
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by skc

Ferrari do seem to be in a difficult place at the moment. Alonso is not too happy in the team and Massa similarly unsettled.

Whilst the electronics genius may help them out of a short term hole, they need stronger direction and leadership more than anything. I don't think Alonso is the second coming of Schumacher as some expected and will notbe able to unite the team.

Alonso has no right to be unhappy. He should get on with the job.

First he needs to ask Renault to forward on his 6/10ths ASAP, then, being the self confessed master developer, he needs to get on with that in the simulator also.

Jees, some folk are never happy. Is Ferrari going to be another team he falls out with?
2nd June 2010, 11:35
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by skc

...they need stronger direction and leadership more than anything...

Maybe, but isn't Ferrari's current situation simply the way things work in F1? No team can dominate indefinately; no team ever has. While more recent Ferrari fans may have got used to their team dominating that period was always going to come to an end at some point.

Domenicali took over as Ferrari team principal in January 2008. Given that many elements of the "Dream Team" have gone, and bearing in mind that it took Ferrari six years to win their first title under the leadership of Jean Todt, Stefan deserves time.

Kicking him out now is what the 'old' Ferrari would have done.
2nd June 2010, 13:31
Big Ben

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Maybe, but isn't Ferrari's current situation simply the way things work in F1? No team can dominate indefinately; no team ever has. While more recent Ferrari fans may have got used to their team dominating that period was always going to come to an end at some point.

Domenicali took over as Ferrari team principal in January 2008. Given that many elements of the "Dream Team" have gone, and bearing in mind that it took Ferrari six years to win their first title under the leadership of Jean Todt, Stefan deserves time.

Kicking him out now is what the 'old' Ferrari would have done.

No. That's common sense. We have no use of it here. We want to bitch, moan, criticize, insult... the armchair expert is a very demanding man. Nothing but perfection will satisfy him.

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