BBC Coverage

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Originally Posted by wedge

For the BBC Forum, I'd rather they go back to Brundle et al discussing. Feels a bit wrong on Brundle missing out on debates.

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True. His "tactics truck" doesn't really work, but I guess it's a function of having the forum out in the open rather than in a hospitality area with lots of monitors and facilities. Swings and roundabouts: they do seem to be able to grab more interviews this way, but lose out on the race analysis somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Mark

At one point in the race the TV director cut away from the battle with Alonso, but Brundle was able to confirm the overtake was complete as he could see it out of the window n

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The direction was below the usual high standard, but it'll still be a million miles better than next weekend at Monaco - unless you like having a Zepter advertising hoarding taking up 50% of your screen at the start of every other shot.

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Originally Posted by Norwegian Blue

'Look But Never Stare'... Not quite got used to that yet! Great programme as always though!

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I think it can be a nice catchphrase for him. :)

Like Charlie Cox's 'Revs are up and we're ready for a start'.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

I think it can be a nice catchphrase for him. :)

Like Charlie Cox's 'Revs are up and we're ready for a start'.

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Yeah he obviously decided that being the main commentator he needs a catchphrase, like Murray's "go go go" and Allen's "gooooooooooooo". I quite like it, it's a commentators catchphrase but with a driver's knowledge.....and in my head he's just talking about boobs :cheese:

As long as he doesn't use it for every single race - it would be rather tiresome!

At least it's not boogity boogity boogity. :crazy:

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Originally Posted by barryfullalove

and in my head he's just talking about boobs :cheese:

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Oh thanks. You've ruined it for me. I'll have that image in my head from now on. :p

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Oh thanks. You've ruined it for me. I'll have that image in my head from now on. :p

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In what way has that ruined it for you?!!! ;)

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Originally Posted by Dave B

The direction was below the usual high standard, but it'll still be a million miles better than next weekend at Monaco - unless you like having a Zepter advertising hoarding taking up 50% of your screen at the start of every other shot.

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That was also my impression of the Spanish GP. The director missed at least one position change among the leaders by cutting to something else. The assumption seems to be that any car entering the pits is noteworthy, even if it is a tail-ender; for me anyway, this is not the case.

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Originally Posted by Mark

At least it's not boogity boogity boogity. :crazy:

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Nowt wrong with ol' DW. In fact, when F1 goes back to the US, can we get him in as a guest third commentator? :p :

Perhaps instead of a catchphrase, Brundle could try the old DJ tactic of trying to talk up to the start of the record (race) without crashing the vocals (cars leaving the grid).

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Originally Posted by Mark

As long as he doesn't use it for every single race - it would be rather tiresome!

At least it's not boogity boogity boogity. :crazy:

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lol

I am in plenty of ways a big fan of the BBC coverage but in other ways I’m not a fan. I love the onboard comparisons they make in qualifying. It shows exactly how close these guys are in speed and how just that little bit can make a huge difference.

In fairness to DC he has sort of come out in support of Schumacher in recent races and said that he feel he deserves the right to decide when it is time to hang up his helmet. But I do feel at time they are very biased towards him. Eddie Jordan I do not believe is a good pundit. For a man that is so successful he can be an awful eejit at times.

The commentary during a race then I’m not so huge on. They tend to miss a lot of things happening on the circuit.

Also, what’s the deal with the director? I think it was when Webber overtook Alonso last Sunday they switched to the start finish straight where absolutely nothing was happening. They also ignored the fight for first and second and concentrated on 3rd and 4th for around half hour of the race when 1st and 2nd place fight was much closer. A bit ridiculous. I believe that is the fault of FOM and not BBC though.

Yes its whoever FOM choose as there director. It often seems to be the same guy at each race, or they hire directors with an equally wayward approach from each country we visit.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

The commentary during a race then I’m not so huge on. They tend to miss a lot of things happening on the circuit.

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I think that's a bit harsh. IMO they are missing less than previous commentators have, despite the races being much more eventful this year.

I think the possibility that EJ is an eejit may have been mentioned previously ;) He gets everyone talking though doesn't he, so if you subscribe to the theory that there's no such thing as bad publicity then he's doing a great job :)

It's not as bad as it used to be. Back in the day the directors would be from the local TV company, with instructions to show the race catering for the local market. So in Spain you'd see nothing but Alonso, in Germany nothing but Schumacher, etc.

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Originally Posted by Mark

It's not as bad as it used to be. Back in the day the directors would be from the local TV company, with instructions to show the race catering for the local market. So in Spain you'd see nothing but Alonso, in Germany nothing but Schumacher, etc.

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Or you'd get a director so concerned not to miss anything happening to the leader that they would focus on them to the detriment of what else was going on, no matter how far in front they were.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Or you'd get a director so concerned not to miss anything happening to the leader that they would focus on them to the detriment of what else was going on, no matter how far in front they were.

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I believe back in the bad old days of the early 2000's where the world feed was deliberately crippled to make us subscribe to the digital pay per view (even though it wasn't actually available!) There was a contractual requirement for the director to show certain proportion of each car, depending on position in the race and constructors championship ranking from the previous year. This meant they often spent a long time showing cars where nothing was happening, and missing action elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

I think that's a bit harsh. IMO they are missing less than previous commentators have, despite the races being much more eventful this year.

I think the possibility that EJ is an eejit may have been mentioned previously ;) He gets everyone talking though doesn't he, so if you subscribe to the theory that there's no such thing as bad publicity then he's doing a great job :)

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My main issue with the commentary, especially last year, was their tendency to be biased against Schumacher. Brundle’s obvious grudge against him with comments such as in Silverstone last year when Vettel hustled past him where he said something along the lines of “That’s no more than the treatment Schumacher has dished out through the years coming back at him” and other silly rants as that turned me off listening to BBC. I’d expect better professionalism from a BBC commentator. Brundle seems to have toned it down this year a little though but he has had one or two moments of unwarranted criticism. DC has been doing a very good job and, to his credit, he seems to be more neutral, which is what I’d expect from him.

I agree that is probably EJ’s role, the joker of the pack a such. It is entertainment after all. Sometimes listening to him babbling on just infuriates me.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

My main issue with the commentary, especially last year, was their tendency to be biased towards Schumacher.

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I think you mean 'biased against', don't you?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I think you mean 'biased against', don't you?

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Yeah ;)

I like the role EJ plays in that he speaks his mind - even if it's a lot of nonsense sometimes. We already have enough people who are afraid to speak out and tow the corporate line and be diplomatic the entire time.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

My main issue with the commentary, especially last year, was their tendency to be biased against Schumacher. Brundle’s obvious grudge against him with comments such as in Silverstone last year when Vettel hustled past him where he said something along the lines of “That’s no more than the treatment Schumacher has dished out through the years coming back at him” and other silly rants as that turned me off listening to BBC. I’d expect better professionalism from a BBC commentator. Brundle seems to have toned it down this year a little though but he has had one or two moments of unwarranted criticism. DC has been doing a very good job and, to his credit, he seems to be more neutral, which is what I’d expect from him.

I agree that is probably EJ’s role, the joker of the pack a such. It is entertainment after all. Sometimes listening to him babbling on just infuriates me.

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I'm not quite sure how you see that Brundle comment as biased, Schumacher HAS made some strong passes in the past. Also DC does love his old Red Bull team.

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Originally Posted by Mark

It's not as bad as it used to be. Back in the day the directors would be from the local TV company, with instructions to show the race catering for the local market. So in Spain you'd see nothing but Alonso, in Germany nothing but Schumacher, etc.

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Monaco next - the last remaing race to use a local crew. I hope I'm wrong, but be prepared for almost every shot starting with an advertising hoarding taking up 50% of your screen. By the end of the race you'll be sick of Zepter, Martini et al.

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Originally Posted by Mark

I like the role EJ plays in that he speaks his mind

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Sadly he has the mind of an idiot ;)

I'm happy to have someone that speaks their mind but EJ isn't it. The grid interview with Peter Schmeichel in Spain is a great example of how he isn't cut out for this game. He spouted a complete load of nonsense (literally, I didn't have a clue what his actual question was) that just left the interviewee dumbfounded. Most of all the question he was trying to ask wasn't actually interesting because he was trying to compare football and F1 (something about teams and....I dunno). He also still doesn't appreciate the whole idea of TV, I didn't see it but as JH was wrapping up the gridwalk (no doubt with the director yapping in his ear) EJ was tugging at his hand trying to get him to interview someone. After 18 months in the job I'd have thought he'd have grasped the concept of time and how these things work.

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Originally Posted by barryfullalove

I'm not quite sure how you see that Brundle comment as biased, Schumacher HAS made some strong passes in the past. Also DC does love his old Red Bull team.

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Sure he has made some strong passes, all great champion of the sport have, but that comment was more vindictive than stating the facts. It was said with a “serves you right Schumi” attitude which is biased against Schumi. Again, this is not something I’d expect from a professional commentator. Brundle always focuses on the negative when it comes to Schumacher, not the positive. In the end he’s just a man that couldn’t live with the fact that Schumacher was quicker than him.

DC Is still an advisor to RBR isn't he?

I think you're being far too precious here. Brundle has spent years fawning over how good a driver Schumacher is and talking about the way his mind works in a way different to most drivers. Far from him focusing on the negative, I think it's YOU that has focused on what he's saying that is negative.

I've found myself to really like the pairing of Brundle and DC. Pre-season, I didn't think it was going to work out, but in fact, it is quite the opposite :)

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Originally Posted by barryfullalove

I think you're being far too precious here. Brundle has spent years fawning over how good a driver Schumacher is and talking about the way his mind works in a way different to most drivers. Far from him focusing on the negative, I think it's YOU that has focused on what he's saying that is negative.

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You're welcome to your opinion, but to me it has been clear for years that Brundle has a bee in his bonnet over Schumacher. He has to focus on the positive at some point but as an overall his attitude to Schumacher is extremely negative. I am not denying he hasn't praised him high at times but if the opportunity to have a dig at him arises then he will give it his best.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Sure he has made some strong passes, all great champion of the sport have, but that comment was more vindictive than stating the facts. It was said with a “serves you right Schumi” attitude which is biased against Schumi. Again, this is not something I’d expect from a professional commentator. Brundle always focuses on the negative when it comes to Schumacher, not the positive. In the end he’s just a man that couldn’t live with the fact that Schumacher was quicker than him.

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Or someone who remembers what Schumacher dished out to Hill and Villeneuve (just to offer an alternative point of view). A relatively neutral comment can appear biased in one direction or the other depending on where it lies relative to one's own sympathies.
Commentators shouldn't avoid expressing their own opinions simply because some people will disagree. It's not unprofessional. A commentary that contained only facts would be very dry.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

if the opportunity to have a dig at him arises then he will give it his best.

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I don't think that's any different to the majority of the drivers on the grid, he's thrown in some pretty meaty criticism to a lot of others. Everyone loves Rubens but Brundle will be sharp about him, likewise Massa. Shirley part of being objective is criticising as well as praising, the difference being that Brundle has quite a sharp wit so his digs will seem a bit harsh.

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Originally Posted by barryfullalove

I don't think that's any different to the majority of the drivers on the grid, he's thrown in some pretty meaty criticism to a lot of others. Everyone loves Rubens but Brundle will be sharp about him, likewise Massa. Shirley part of being objective is criticising as well as praising, the difference being that Brundle has quite a sharp wit so his digs will seem a bit harsh.

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The one thing I will say about Brundle is that he said at the start of the year he believes Schumacher should be given more time. I agree with this and I don't believe Schuey would be driving if he didn't believe he had another championship in him.

I don't find the Brundle's opinion balanced in general, but as you say he has the ability to surprise and praise him every now and then. There is a reason Schumacher won't give interviews to him, the two never got a long so I don't believe it is ever possible for Brundle to be objective towards Schuey.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

You're welcome to your opinion, but to me it has been clear for years that Brundle has a bee in his bonnet over Schumacher.

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In that case — and I disagree with you, having always considered Brundle to be a scrupulously fair commentator — he is hardly unique in holding that view.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I don't find the Brundle's opinion balanced in general, but as you say he has the ability to surprise and praise him every now and then. There is a reason Schumacher won't give interviews to him, the two never got a long so I don't believe it is ever possible for Brundle to be objective towards Schuey.

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You are wrong in that statement. Brundle has spoken in interviews of how they got along fine at Benetton and for some years after, until Schumacher read something negative he thought Brundle had written about him. In fact, he had written nothing of the sort.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

You are wrong in that statement. Brundle has spoken in interviews of how they got along fine at Benetton and for some years after, until Schumacher read something negative he thought Brundle had written about him. In fact, he had written nothing of the sort.

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Really? In that case, Please, do enlighten me as to what he actually said then... :)

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I don't believe Schuey would be driving if he didn't believe he had another championship in him.

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And for that reason he should be committed (ie to a home). Did you see the interview that he did with Lee McKenzie before Barcelona? He said that there is no evidence to Nico being quicker!! FFS he's being comprehensively trrounced in all areas, from first practice on a Friday right through to the end of the race.

I'd love for MS to still have it and to take the fight to the big boys, but it's just not happening. And that retracing of steps over taking no joy in racing was awful. It was clear that he meant in general, not just for the race at Turkey.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Really? In that case, Ppease, do enlighten me as to what he actually said then... :)

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Yes, really. I have no idea what the comment was that caused offence, though.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Yes, really. I have no idea what the comment was that caused offence, though.

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This is from memory, I haven't looked it all up that would take days.

Watching Martins Grid walks in 1999 and 2000 era, he interviewed Schuey a few times before the race on the Grid. Then there was some issue raised around 2002 as far as I remember Schumi disliked something Brundle said about the need for team orders and the whole issue around Barrichello moving over while Schumi was so far ahead in the Championship. He also had a rift with Ross Brawn over the same issue and they are now good friends.

Then in later years Schumacher had an exclusive Grid Contract or something like that to a German TV Company thus didn't give interviews to anyone else on the grid.

I have also got Interviews somewhere of the two talking pre race on the ITV build up show and not to wear out the point I remember Brundle saying a few times while on a flights home from a races their paths crossed and they chatted about there Benetton days and alike all in the later 2000's

All in all I don't think there has been much of an issue between the two other than one turning into a member of the press and one not being so open and friendly with him as a result.

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Originally Posted by barryfullalove

And for that reason he should be committed (ie to a home). Did you see the interview that he did with Lee McKenzie before Barcelona? He said that there is no evidence to Nico being quicker!! FFS he's being comprehensively trrounced in all areas, from first practice on a Friday right through to the end of the race.

I'd love for MS to still have it and to take the fight to the big boys, but it's just not happening. And that retracing of steps over taking no joy in racing was awful. It was clear that he meant in general, not just for the race at Turkey.

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When I watched that interview it was very clear to me that he said "The big joy is not there at the moment". If he said it is not there anymore than I'd have taken it as I'm going to retire soon talk. However, he said "at the moment" so it seems pretty clear to me that it was his performances and car he was talking about.

Regards MS form, he and Nico have been very close in pace throughout the year. Schumacher has had bad luck but it Turkey it was his own fault for overdoing it into turn one. I don't believe the gap between them is as huge as it seems right now but you're right, Nico is still quicker and Schumacher has to start responding in Monaco.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Yes, really. I have no idea what the comment was that caused offence, though.

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Well then you can't really know that he said "nothing of the sort" then, can you?

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Well then you can't really know that he said "nothing of the sort" then, can you?

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Yes, because Brundle himself has said he made no such comments, and that's good enough for me. I find him a rather more believable character than many in F1. And bias, let me remind you, is (almost) always in the eye of the beholder.

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Originally Posted by aki13

This is from memory, I haven't looked it all up that would take days.

Watching Martins Grid walks in 1999 and 2000 era, he interviewed Schuey a few times before the race on the Grid. Then there was some issue raised around 2002 as far as I remember Schumi disliked something Brundle said about the need for team orders and the whole issue around Barrichello moving over while Schumi was so far ahead in the Championship. He also had a rift with Ross Brawn over the same issue and they are now good friends.

Then in later years Schumacher had an exclusive Grid Contract or something like that to a German TV Company thus didn't give interviews to anyone else on the grid.

I have also got Interviews somewhere of the two talking pre race on the ITV build up show and not to wear out the point I remember Brundle saying a few times while on a flights home from a races their paths crossed and they chatted about there Benetton days and alike all in the later 2000's

All in all I don't think there has been much of an issue between the two other than one turning into a member of the press and one not being so open and friendly with him as a result.

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I've heard many explanations for the apparent "bad blood" between them but this would make more sense than anything. If there is an issue it very well may be unfounded. Either way, I still don't find MB's analysis of Schuey very balanced, but I'll take the points made in this thread into consideration in the future, as it is quite possible that I myself jump the gun without realising it in regards to MS bias as BDunnell pointed out.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

as it is quite possible that I myself jump the gun without realising it in regards to MS bias as BDunnell pointed out.

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It's very easily done. A lot of fans of the football team that I support have a huge chip on their shoulder about the amount of media coverage that the club gets. In truth though it's simply because there aren't as many people interested in hearing about Exeter City as there are about Sheffield Wednesday, Southampton etc. But sometimes it can be very difficult to form an objective opinion.