Homophobia

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

I see very little wrong with this view and although Rjbetty has, as he admits, a homophobic attitude to an extent but it is passive. You cant just change peoples minds because you want to or condemn him out of hand in an intollerant way.

---

As I said in my post above, I object to being branded in any way intolerant on the grounds that I object to homophobic opinions. It follows that the only way to be tolerant in this scenario is not to express an opinion opposing said homophobic views.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

I think we need to be careful when we label people because sometimes, it forces someone into adopting a black or white stance. I don't think it's necessary for someone to be pro-gay as long as they are tollerant and not discriminatory. When we try and force people down channels, they resent.

---

It's this 'pro-gay' bit I don't understand. There should be no reason to be 'pro-gay'. To my mind, we're all humans, and referring to someone as 'pro-gay' is rather like saying you're 'pro-human', which would be absurd. I've said it before in this thread, but I think a lot of straight people, including very tolerant and liberal ones, see differences between straight and gay people that simply don't exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

If you don't mind my asking, who did you seek/speak to for advice, and at what age were you aware of your sexuality? Please tell me to bugger off if this is an innapropriate question!

---

Not at all. Awareness of my sexuality: probably at about 12. I didn't come out until I was 22. Who did I speak to for advice: a friend. I didn't find the whole process easy, but this was my own fault for not dealing with it in, I've since come to realise, a sensible way.

You have very set, solid and entrenched views Ben. I accept that. However, others may not have such solid views or even different views. Are they wrong?

You say if things are taken to extremes then you cannot express any view at all. Well, that's childish debating IMHO. We are not taking things to extremes but discussing different views. You have to accept that people hold different opinions and just because you don't agree with them, makes then no less valid. If you were more tollerant of others opinions, you might understand them more and where they are coming from. This may not be where you think ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

Not at all. Awareness of my sexuality: probably at about 12. I didn't come out until I was 22. Who did I speak to for advice: a friend. I didn't find the whole process easy, but this was my own fault for not dealing with it in, I've since come to realise, a sensible way.

---

Thanks for sharing that. Interesting that you cite yourself for it not being easy, rather than taking the easy route of blaming others.

I do find threads and discussions such as this very much open the mind. It is teaching me a lot about myself, and how I percieve others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BDunnell

And I managed to be gay without being taught about it.

---

Indeed, much like I managed to be straight without being taught about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Homophobia is a very emotive word an people automatically think of active discrimination when it's mentioned. Yet here we have someone that says they don't mind what people do as long as they don't have to condone it. I see very little wrong with this view and although Rjbetty has, as he admits, a homophobic attitude to an extent but it is passive. You cant just change peoples minds because you want to or condemn him out of hand in an intollerant way.

---

I'm trying to understand for Ben how difficult it must be to not be accepted by others. I suppose you have to try and put yourself in a situation where you could be judged for something you can't help. Imagine if a good friend of yours suddenly admitted out of the blue that he had nothing against you personally, but because you chose a blonde/brunette wife, he didn't quite see you as equal. I know that's a silly example on the face of it but gets the point across. Would it affect your relationship with the friend or would you accept his point of view knowing what he was thinking every time he was in your company? I had a friend at University who I got on with very well, but one evening we discussed this very topic (homosexuality) and he had some very strong views against it. I'm sorry to say it changed my whole opinion of him and our friendship ceased to exist. We still socialise occasionally in the same group and things aren't quite so awkward these days, but I couldn't be close with him again. Some might say I'm being equally intolerant of him and I suppose I am, but we can choose our friends and views can be changed, sexuality can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by henners88

I'm trying to understand for Ben how difficult it must be to not be accepted by others. I suppose you have to try and put yourself in a situation where you could be judged for something you can't help. Imagine if a good friend of yours suddenly admitted out of the blue that he had nothing against you personally, but because you chose a blonde/brunette wife, he didn't quite see you as equal. I know that's a silly example on the face of it but gets the point across. Would it affect your relationship with the friend or would you accept his point of view knowing what he was thinking every time he was in your company? I had a friend at University who I got on with very well, but one evening we discussed this very topic (homosexuality) and he had some very strong views against it. I'm sorry to say it changed my whole opinion of him and our friendship ceased to exist. We still socialise occasionally in the same group and things aren't quite so awkward these days, but I couldn't be close with him again. Some might say I'm being equally intolerant of him and I suppose I am, but we can choose our friends and views can be changed, sexuality can't.

---

Exactly. Thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by henners88

I'm trying to understand for Ben how difficult it must be to not be accepted by others. I suppose you have to try and put yourself in a situation where you could be judged for something you can't help. Imagine if a good friend of yours suddenly admitted out of the blue that he had nothing against you personally, but because you chose a blonde/brunette wife, he didn't quite see you as equal. I know that's a silly example on the face of it but gets the point across. Would it affect your relationship with the friend or would you accept his point of view knowing what he was thinking every time he was in your company? I had a friend at University who I got on with very well, but one evening we discussed this very topic (homosexuality) and he had some very strong views against it. I'm sorry to say it changed my whole opinion of him and our friendship ceased to exist. We still socialise occasionally in the same group and things aren't quite so awkward these days, but I couldn't be close with him again. Some might say I'm being equally intolerant of him and I suppose I am, but we can choose our friends and views can be changed, sexuality can't.

---

Totally agree. I wouldn't associate with someone so intollerant no matter what their particular views but then again I don't have to. If I like someone or if someone likes me, that's a choice, not fate.

There are people on these boards that might not like me for my views or my brusque manner. There are certainly people on here that I have met that don't like me for various reasons but it doesn't keep me awake at night. Every single one of them are people who I would choose not to be associated because if someone doesn't like me or I don't lke them for who they are, then what's the problem.

I'm not going to get on with intollerant people so the quicker I know them, the less time I waste :) However, I suggest that people with passive homophobia are generally like that because of naievity and stereotypes. Let me give an example.

When I was growing up in the early 70's, rascism was alive and kicking in the UK. My Mother would say that blacks came over here and committed a variety of crimes from being dirty to rape. She didn't realise that she was being rascist but that's just 'how it was'. My first and most important lesson in rascism came when I ws about 6 when my Mum said something along the lines of "all blacks being wrong'uns". I asked abut my friend Ben who lived opposite and who I used to play with. He was Black and so was his parents which was quite a rare thing in Essex at the time.

"Obviously not them, we know them" was my mothers reply. It was like a balloon bursting. Even at 6 years of age, I realised my Mother was talking rubbish and this myth that she was infalliable was shattered. It made no sense and suddenly my fear of the Black man evaporated.

However, unlike Blacks, the people out there that feel uncomfortable socialising with Gay people don't realise that they do it every day. At work, down the pub, in the street. Gays don't walk out of their house in a Pink TuTu and Mankini. They walk in a pair of Jeans, Sneakers and a T Shirt. In winter a coat and scarf may be donned or even a baseball cap. Sometimes they don't even have a moustache!!!

Best way to find out who is gay is to get 9 mates together and ask who's Gay. If none of them say yes, then it's you :p

If people want to feel uncomfortable then that's their right but sooner or later, they will realise, like my mother did over the duration of the 70's, that their fear is imaginary and people are people. Good or bad, gay or straight, black or white. We're all basically the same. but it's just our personalities that distinguish us.

You know, this is exactly the type of arcane and erudite post that has to be expected from the intolerant types. This is the type of person that would find solace in the Westbury Church group. Of course I'm referring to SlowSon. Very appropriate username.
Your ignorance and inability to express your point of view in a cognitive manner indicates, to me at least, your lack of a basic and very basic at that , knowledge of homosexuality.
Explain to the forum what family-filia is? How is homosexuality even remotely akin to any of the identified;by you, anti-social or even inhuman ailments that you appear to just rattle off with ease but, I would bet your inability to explain why you view these as comparable to each other when in fact they are not.
Yo could just as soon used a fracture of the femur, a head cold, pneumonia or myocardial infarction to your own analogy as it makes about as much sense as the contents of this sentence.
Mark mentioned harm to others! You, sir or madam with this post display a dysfunctional ability to understand a condition from that of a lifestyle that is not of their choosing but a biological mishap they have to endure because of the likes of you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark

Which is part of the problem. People like yourself who have views which are completely incorrect. Even if you were to characterise being gay as a 'sickness', then it can't be compared to the likes of peadofilia, as that causes genuine harm to innocent individuals. Whereas being gay does nothing of the the sort.

(BTW normally if you came out with such things you'd get an instant and permanent ban; however it's relevant to the debate at hand in this case, I would ask those who may be offended by comments in this thread to show tolerance to opposing viewpoints, even if distasteful)

---

You know, this is exactly the type of arcane and erudite post that has to be expected from the intolerant types. This is the type of person that would find solace in the Westbury Church group. Of course I'm referring to SlowSon. Very appropriate username.
Your ignorance and inability to express your point of view in a cognitive manner indicates, to me at least, your lack of a basic and very basic at that , knowledge of homosexuality.
Explain to the forum what family-filia is? How is homosexuality even remotely akin to any of the choices identified;by you, anti-social or even inhuman ailments that you appear to just rattle off with ease but, I would bet your inability to explain why you view these as comparable to each other when in fact they are not.
Yo could just as soon used a fracture of the femur, a head cold, pneumonia or myocardial infarction to your own analogy as it makes about as much sense as the contents of this sentence.
Mark mentioned harm to others! You, sir or madam with this post display a dysfunctional ability to understand a condition from that of a lifestyle that is not of their choosing but a biological mishap they have to endure because of the likes of you.