The future of the Euro and EU.

Cameron Wishes Euro Bloc Well as U.K. Negotiates Isolation - Businessweek
Prime Minister David Cameron said Britain refused to sacrifice sovereignty to save the euro, remaining outside an agreement by European nations to tighten budget rules.
Cameron broke ranks with French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel after he failed to secure safeguards that would have stopped European Union plans to police financial services in London, Europe’s trading hub. The U.K and possibly Hungary, Sweden and the Czech Republic will remain outside the new rules.

From what I understand of this, Cameron has basically refused to negotiate with Europe over a propsed Financial Transactions Tax on the basis that it would lead to an exit of funds from "The City". Sovereignty certainly is an issue in Europe; especially when it comes to taxation policy because I'm not so sure that moving towards a more uniform taxation code in Europe is even feasible given how all the various countries economies are driven.
These sorts of arguments when on with the European Coal and Steel Community with only just 6 countries; with 27+ and with more than just coal and steel to worry about, it'd be a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

When you say 'Germany' in this context, what exactly do you mean?

I detect no great enthusiasm for what you describe amongst the German people.

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I mean mainly Merkel. I don't see her as an Iron Lady but rather a weak leader with no concept of the bigger picture and a limited vision for resolving the current situation. Her only response is to try and control and micro manage the crisis in the vain belief that she is somehow capable of controlling a fractured and divisive Europe.

Well, if she thinks she can control this, she is delusional in my opinion. Germany cannot bail this out and trying to control different cultures and sovereign states just wont work. I'm glad Cameron had the balls to refuse capitulation on this foolish intuitive of Light Brigade proportions. Into the valley of death Merkel charges her troops.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I'm glad Cameron had the balls to refuse capitulation on this foolish intuitive of Light Brigade proportions.

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But he has achieved precisely nothing, though.

It's all smoke and mirrors anyway.. There is no money for a bailout - it is all based on future 'growth', and currently, that is not really sustainable.

Pretty much every country has artificially staved off stagnating growth/increasing unemployment by either boosting benefits or creating public sector jobs. Now, the money has run out. The unions want to hold us to ransom, there are ever more and more job losses. Businesses are going down the pan quick.

So how does Merkosy propose to come up with the cash required to prevent a meltdown equally as bad as that suffered by TEPCO?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

But he has achieved precisely nothing, though.

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Sometimes achieving nothing is better than the alternative. Non?

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Well, if she thinks she can control this, she is delusional in my opinion. Germany cannot bail this out and trying to control different cultures and sovereign states just wont work.

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She doesn't think she can control anything. She isn't even attempting to. This is the problem. As with other problems she's faced before she wants to see how it pans out and then pick out the best course to tread her way through the remains.

Germany can bail the problem out, or at least it can with France, Holland and the rest of the solid Euro states. Decisive action on Germany and France's part can calm the markets and stave off a lot of problems. The problem is that there is no decisive action. From a British point of view though, if the Germans took the kind of decisive action they need to, they'll be attacked for trying to establish a European superpower under their leadership blah and other tired stereotypes.

As I thought earlier Merkozy's plan relies on better fiscal discipline. This is great for avoiding Euro meltdown mk 2 but helps little in the current crisis. I'm disappointed though that Sarkozy has abandoned his earlier vision of how to tackle the crisis because it was actually what was required.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I'm glad Cameron had the balls to refuse capitulation on this foolish intuitive of Light Brigade proportions. Into the valley of death Merkel charges her troops.

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Actually Cameron showed his complete lack of balls by what he did last night.

Instead of proposing measures that he suggested before like making the ECB a lender of last resort he merely tried to protect British interests and refused to see the bigger picture. While I think he was right to not agree with the initial proposal and veto it he had no alternative vision despite showing earlier that he had the right ideas. That was a complete failure of leadership.

The problem is, and its ironic for someone who talks endlessly about the big society, that Cameron and previous British PM's have no idea of Europe as a community. They merely approach it in terms of what it can do for Britain rather than in terms of working for a common goal which is the German ideology. Worse, they try to stick their oar into things when the rest of Europe decide to leave Britain on the sidelines and attempt anything. Britain has a reputation for not being constructive but obstructive which is well deserved.

Unfortunately it is all just the big money "Grab" same as over here. You have countries and we have states. Same bullish!t different place. The era of "revolution" is creeping up on the world. One my have all the money but it will be a MFcker to spend it. A pig gets fatter and a hog get slaughtered. !!

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Originally Posted by Malbec

She doesn't think she can control anything. She isn't even attempting to. This is the problem. As with other problems she's faced before she wants to see how it pans out and then pick out the best course to tread her way through the remains.

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She has never really been in a great crisis before. If you recall, she came to power promising much in the way of cuts to Germany's welfare system, which she had portrayed in opposition as unduly extravagant, and has actually done very little because she hasn't really had to.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

From a British point of view though, if the Germans took the kind of decisive action they need to, they'll be attacked for trying to establish a European superpower under their leadership blah and other tired stereotypes.

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Quite so.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Actually Cameron showed his complete lack of balls by what he did last night.

Instead of proposing measures that he suggested before like making the ECB a lender of last resort he merely tried to protect British interests and refused to see the bigger picture. While I think he was right to not agree with the initial proposal and veto it he had no alternative vision despite showing earlier that he had the right ideas. That was a complete failure of leadership.

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In the broader sense, maybe, but not in terms of leadership of the Conservative Party. This, I think, is what lays behind his actions. Sadly, he is not there to represent his party, but the British people (a majority of whom would probably support what he's done, let's be honest.)

Headline News:

The Europe Union countries isolate themselves from the UK !!!

:dozey:

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Originally Posted by donKey jote

Headline News:

The Europe Union countries isolate themselves from the UK !!!

:dozey:

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So true on so many levels!