Renault get a 2 year suspended ban

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

But had the race-fixing not occurred, there would have been no way for Max to get rid of Flavio...

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Isn't that the issue where Max is concerned though? The suggestion has been that certain circumstances, which are not unique in the history of F1, have been exploited to a particular end whereas others have not been put under the same level of scrutiny.

While the departure from F1 of the likes of Ron Dennis and Flavio Briatore may have been welcomed in some quarters, it is not the role of the FIA to target individuals who may have got up the nose of the FIA President.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Agreed. Thank you!

I have never said that McLaren shouldn't be punished. They deserved to be and were.

I just question why weren't Renault and by your post, I assume you are asking the same question.

Then we have this incident which the Max and the FIA has said is worse than the Spygate and Renault still don't get punished.

It seems that if the FIA decide you are pivortal to FI, ie Renault and Ferrari, then the rules and punishment is different from other competitors.

PS Can we remember the Forum Protocol thread?

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Well tbh I don't remember the renault spygate details at all. Feel free to refresh my memory and I will probably agree with you that it's a bit strange.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

WIth Max out, it's fair game and you can bet there will be more grime dug up from his past. ANd I suspect this is why he pursued the privacy thing, because, on the face of it, it appears he has much murkier past than just bondage and fancy dress.

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Well, all the stuff about his dubious political associations in his younger days — he was very enthusiastic about his father's politics — is quite well known, though rarely mentioned by the press, it must be said.

I read recently that Max was at some dinner with a load of motorsport journalists who presented him with a riding whip, which he apparently found most amusing. 'What a good sport', you might think. I suspect that he would have been less amused had he been given a copy of 'Hitler's Death Camps', or some such. This despite the fact that his dad may well be mentioned in the index.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Isn't that the issue where Max is concerned though? The suggestion has been that certain circumstances, which are not unique in the history of F1, have been exploited to a particular end whereas others have not been put under the same level of scrutiny.

While the departure from F1 of the likes of Ron Dennis and Flavio Briatore may have been welcomed in some quarters, it is not the role of the FIA to target individuals who may have got up the nose of the FIA President.

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I agree with all of that, but, like I said, the outcomes in the Renault case — which is, as far as we know, unique — would not have been altered.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Max is someone who, in his younger days, was a supporter of his father's fascist movement, and more recently has been fundamentally bad at his job, leaving aside the comments it is easy to make about him continuing to demonstrate some of the tendencies of his father. Flavio should have gone to prison. Are these people worthy of our admiration? Or should we automatically, unthinkingly, slavishly respect them because they have a lot of money?

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Humans are not angels and maybe they shouldn't be. I respect Flavio tremendously, because he was one of the people who made MS and Fred champions, because he was shrewd, talented organizer and - yes - ruthless team boss who chased the victory always on the edge. He crossed the edge and he fell. But I continue to respect him.
About Max, he is really authoritarian, rude schemer, but he made a lot about F1 safety and in the end he was right about many things, including the fact that the manufacturers do not care about F1 and costs need to go down. I hate his attitude, but he is not all black either.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Humans are not angels and maybe they shouldn't be. I respect Flavio tremendously, because he was one of the people who made MS and Fred champions, because he was shrewd, talented organizer and - yes - ruthless team boss who chased the victory always on the edge. He crossed the edge and he fell. But I continue to respect him.
About Max, he is really authoritarian, rude schemer, but he made a lot about F1 safety and in the end he was right about many things, including the fact that the manufacturers do not care about F1 and costs need to go down. I hate his attitude, but he is not all black either.

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I agree that these people are not all bad, but I prefer to concentrate on personal qualities when it comes to respecting such people, and there is just too much about these individuals that I dislike. In relation to Briatore, how many other people do you respect who, I repeat, were sentenced to jail at one point?

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Humans are not angels and maybe they shouldn't be. I respect Flavio tremendously, because he was one of the people who made MS and Fred champions, because he was shrewd, talented organizer and - yes - ruthless team boss who chased the victory always on the edge. He crossed the edge and he fell. But I continue to respect him.
About Max, he is really authoritarian, rude schemer, but he made a lot about F1 safety and in the end he was right about many things, including the fact that the manufacturers do not care about F1 and costs need to go down. I hate his attitude, but he is not all black either.

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I actually agree. I mean look at Hitler! Fantastic bloke, turned Germany into a powerhouse of industry, fathered the autobahns, German motorsport gained a lot in his time and loads of other things. I find it sad that people focus on the side of Hitler that was all for slaughtering jews, gays, slavs etc.

And yes I am being sarcastic......

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I agree that these people are not all bad, but I prefer to concentrate on personal qualities when it comes to respecting such people, and there is just too much about these individuals that I dislike. In relation to Briatore, how many other people do you respect who, I repeat, were sentenced to jail at one point?

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Mandela went to jail. Perhaps it would be better if we looked at the conviction, rather than the jail bit....?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

And yes I am being sarcastic......

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So glad you cleared that up! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Well tbh I don't remember the renault spygate details at all. Feel free to refresh my memory and I will probably agree with you that it's a bit strange.

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Phil Macereth left McLaren for Renault in 2006 with the plans and documentation for suspension, fuel system, mass damper and gearing.

These were then used within Renault and came to light when a quite junour ex-Renault employee joined McLaren about a year later and admitted to knowing all about the McLaren data. Phil himself when joining Renault went to work in their Fuel department where he had absolutly no knowledge apart from what he stole.

Phil admitted sharing the information with key engineering staff but they all stated that the design of their car was not influenced by the stolen data.

Charlie Whiting popped down one day and spoke to them and apparently accepted their word.

Result. $100m fine..... Sorry, wrong team. No penalty. I think Phil still works ther.