Quote:
Originally Posted by heelntoe
How do you guys know these numbers, and where are the numbers?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heelntoe
How do you guys know these numbers, and where are the numbers?
Who knows if the series operates in the black or red. Most of the guys don't care what series they are racing just so long as they are racing. For example, Bobby D's chief engineer (as well as several members from various CC and Atlantic teams) are running PJ Chesson's efforts in Chicago today. Steve Horne is in Chicago today as well (let the rumors start flying). These guys just want to race.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimispeed
You've been discredited several times before. Your stories only serve as a great disservice to the series you love. Stop already.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguin
Link!Quote:
Originally Posted by heelntoe
C'mon heelntoe, lets see your CC financials. A real link with real numbers. not some made up stuff either. Let's see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by heelntoe
One other thing, don't come here with old CART financials from 4 years ago, as you IRL fans like to do, and try to say they are the same for CC.
CCWS has nothing to do with the way CART operated financially, nothing.
I have been reading this thread and have enjoyed it because it pretty much sums up the sorry state of things on both sides along with how most fans I speak to feel. I decided to post something becuase I have insight into the the financials of both series and believe that neither comes close to breaking even. Since the subject of this tread is what happens next, I ask everyone here to consider the likely reality of the Champ Car and IRL financials.
Sanguin claims that Champ Car is in the black so from I have read of his posts, I can only assume he works for the owners of OWRS or he wouldn't make a satment like that. Right Mr. Sanguin?
If this is true, where then does the money come from to create this profit?
Sponsorship? TV income? Sanction fees such as Denver, Zuhai and Phoenix?
Or perhaps the promoters in the US, Mexico, Canada, Oz and Europe paying a premium for a series with questionable marque value, few stars and little portable commercial support.
Please Mr. Sanquin explain it to all of the foolish doubters.
Maybe the OWRS owners are simply reducing costs to the bare minimum and playing a shell game with promoters on these fees to make things look better to a potential buyer.
How much are the owners paying out of their own pockets to run mostly unsponsored cars, including K. Legge?
How much are they paying P. Stoddart for the F1 two seaters?
Where all this Champ Car income really coming from? Mazda? Bridgestone? Cooper Tires. Surely you jest.
Since no one is posting similar claims about the IRL I ask, where does the income come from for that series?
Sponsorship? TV income? Sanction fees? Indy 500?
How much money is T. George spending to fill the field for the 500 and the series?
Do the hypothetical math.
I promise you will be illuminating.
CC financials are private but KK did tell us CCWS does not pay subsidies to the teams. This is true.
The Series is run like a business and was revamped from the old CART to stop the financial bleeding.
Take it or leave it, I don't care.
Plain & simple: the numbers are in their heads. Unless one of the principals has decided to lay it out on Motorsport Forum, there is no way to know how much is being made or lost. What people tend to do is use a b@st@rdized form of backwards accounting, based on historical data from when CART was a public company (when such audited data was available).Quote:
Originally Posted by jimispeed
There is a fellow on another forum, who has close ties to the series (no, not the one you're probably thinking of,,,,,) and he claims that the entity known as "Champ Car" is indeed turning a profit now. And that's entirely possible. Too many people assume that there is only one entity in play in the Champ Car World Series. While I seriously doubt that the mezzanine that makes up CCWS is anywhere near as deep or complex as the one that makes up Formula One, there is more than just one entity. And so it's very possible for one to be turning a profit, even if the other 3, 4 or 5 are not.
But the bottomline is, we're talking about private concerns here. And anyone who would tell you to the dollar what is being made or lost is likely full of message board shizzle. As Q&A Virus pointed out, the teams and drivers don't need to know, so why do the fans?
Sanguin, there is no link and frankly, I don't need to provide one...I was in business with OWRS/CCWS when most of the deals that are in effect today were negotiated...I have just one question for you regarding this matter...who is Jim Cox and why would he know better than you how much money CCWS is in the red or black? If you can answer this question, then I will be happy to go on reading the tripe that's been around this forum for the past month or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguin