Homophobia

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Maybe it is an intolerance of the way SOME homosexuals portray themselves, rather than homosexuality itself that rjbetty is talking about?

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Possibly, but that sort of intolerance is also difficult to explain. I quite often see the opinion that people don't mind homosexuals as long as they don't show it in public in any form. For example if a young heterosexual couple kissed each other goodbye in the street it possibly would go unnoticed, but if two gay men did the same, they would be accused of pushing it down peoples throats. I don't like that kind of intolerance. I think the only reason gay pride aims to publicize itself so much is because we still have a fair chunk of society who stigmatize those they don't agree with. We quickly condemn the laws in Dubai who don't allow couples to even hold hands in the street, yet here we often have a very narrow view of what we accept to see in public.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Nothing. But - assuming we are talking school education as opposed to a perent child 'birds and the bees' chat - is your average teacher really qualified to teach this and answer some of the more pressing but innocent questions children may have? A heterosexual dicussing/teaching about homosexuality may not be able to answer an innocent childs probing question correctly.

If my son were to ask me about homosexuality, I don't think I would be able to answer his questions correctly. Certainly, my opinion wont be the same as that of a homosexual, and would therefore be biased. Do I tell him to go read a book?

ANd if my son were to be homosexual, he'd be best getting the best advice. Don't get me wrong he'd get my unconditional love, but would I be qualified to give him the correct advice?

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Homosexuality is covered in schools and has been seen I attended secondary school in the 90's. I don't think you necessarily need to b gay in order to teach children what it is. Of course you want your children taught about such topics by teachers who are not prejudiced against it themselves in order for a fair teaching.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Homosexuality is covered in schools and has been seen I attended secondary school in the 90's. I don't think you necessarily need to b gay in order to teach children what it is. Of course you want your children taught about such topics by teachers who are not prejudiced against it themselves in order for a fair teaching.

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I am clearly of a generation that missed that then. Our sex education lesson in junior school comprised of an animated video and lots of sniggering children! This was early 80's mind you. I don't recall any real sex education in secondary school.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

I am clearly of a generation that missed that then. Our sex education lesson in junior school comprised of an animated video and lots of sniggering children! This was early 80's mind you. I don't recall any real sex education in secondary school.

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Our lesson was know as HHC. 'Home, Health, Community'. It covered a wide range of subjects from sex, drugs, contraception, health conditions, crime etc and we had it once a week for the first 3 years of secondary school. Not everything was directly taught by a teacher and video's were used also. I do think these types of lessons are valuable to children as they raise awareness they often wouldn't get from their parents. It also makes parents lives easier when difficult questions pop up. I finished school in 1998 so I would imagine these types of lessons are more informed for teens who are even more street-wise than 15 years ago.

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Originally Posted by rjbetty

I haven't said much (anything) here, but I have to say I agree with this unpopular opinion. I will by now already have been labelled a hater or something worse in the minds of the tolerant people reading this.

It might be a surprise to find out that I don't hate people for having inclinations. But in my experience there are a few bad eggs who want to flaunt their stuff and are campaigning vigorously to saturate their lifestyle etc into education. I know enough of how anyone who has with the utmost kindness and gentleness politely disagreed (simply on grounds on their conscience, or (something else) have been viciously beaten and savaged, and more. I disagree with the person who suggested it isn't happening. Sadly it kinda is. I can't say I feel that is good and right. I have actually experienced enough first hand and been called the most anti-gay person ever. That was a couple of years ago and was amazing because I can't think of any time I've been anything but cordial and friendly :confused: I just wish someone would tell me why on earth I would be anti-gay. I think it's just that some people are so used to expecting verbal attacks that they see them when they just aren't there.

If people preach so much tolerance, maybe they can do something really radical and actually apply that to themselves also, and simply learn to tolerate the fact that some people just can't find it in their conscience to find that homosexual inclinations are good and right. I know people who feel this way, yet I just cannot see them as haters. The ones doing the hating are the people who proudly declare themselves tolerant.

If this means I am homophobic, then so be it. :) I've actually never been scared of homosexuals btw (maybe a lit In fact I was talking to someone earlier who's inclined that way, and it just ain't an issue for me.



Is it so wrong to simply mention, no matter how kindly, your opinion when badgered for it, that it simply seems physically incompatible for two males or two females to be intimate in that way? If you think about it, the parts look made for one to fit in the other to me.

Has anyone actually read this and realised that I actually haven't attacked anyone (to my knowledge)?!

I look forward to my ban for being so intolerant. Goodbye everyone. :)

Peace :cool:

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I can completely understand where your point of view is formed. I think the "bad apples" you mention often skew the image of gays in the community. But that being said I always try to view things in a fair manner. The "bad apples" within the hetero crowd do the same when they go out of their way to bash gays as well. Both sides of the coin in this instance set bad examples IMO. In reality statistics show that there are likely chances that you have gay friends or acquaintances that either have never come out of the closet or simply never discussed that they are gay. I think some people picture the stereotype of a gay person that they may have is the only indication that a person is gay. I'm not saying this is done with any hatred in mind at all, I know for years I had somewhat formed a stereotype of how gay men acted due to the fact that all gay men I had met to that point were the more flamboyant type.

Here in the US I think that there is still enough stigma attached to gay men that there are likely still a lot of gay men in the closet. If those men came out more of us might see examples of gay men being just as "normal" in other than sexual behaviors as straight men. Until then we often only recognize the examples of the flamboyant, in your face, half their life is consumed with telling being they are gay, on the prowl for a man, etc, gay men.



The only friend or close acquaintance that is an out of the closet gay man that I know right now somewhat fits some of the stereotype. He isn't overly flamboyant but will openly state that if any other men want to "switch sides" to let him know. He will also often pursue friendly relationships with straight men in hope that they will "change their ways". But deep down he does understand that straight people, just like gay people, didn't one day wake up and make a choice to be straight. They were born with those inclinations and it's the only sexual orientation choice that feels "natural" to them.

One day working around him at work we were talking and some gay issues stuff was brought up. He asked me and another person if maybe he should try a female partner to have physical relations with just to "give it a try", even though he knew that the very thought of kissing a female was disgusting to him. He seems kind of shocked when I told him he shouldn't. I told him I saw it as a "lose, lose" situation with only two likely outcomes. 1) it would further reinforce it as a disgusting act to him or 2) he might actually enjoy it and then realize what he was missing the rest of his life.



But in any case RJBETTY, I don't see your view as homophobic at all.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Our lesson was know as HHC. 'Home, Health, Community'. It covered a wide range of subjects from sex, drugs, contraception, health conditions, crime etc and we had it once a week for the first 3 years of secondary school. Not everything was directly taught by a teacher and video's were used also. I do think these types of lessons are valuable to children as they raise awareness they often wouldn't get from their parents. It also makes parents lives easier when difficult questions pop up. I finished school in 1998 so I would imagine these types of lessons are more informed for teens who are even more street-wise than 15 years ago.

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Back in my day the word gay probably wasn't even used in schools. But it was probably a good thing because half the teachers were likely gay bashing, racists idiots back then as well. Tolerance in the US was behind much of the EU countries.

I'm not sure if my daughter learned anything in school about anything other than straight sexual orientation. I'll have to ask her. I do know that she is aware of gay people and accepting of it and that myself and wife have spoken to her about it to better inform her.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Homosexuality is covered in schools and has been seen I attended secondary school in the 90's. I don't think you necessarily need to b gay in order to teach children what it is. Of course you want your children taught about such topics by teachers who are not prejudiced against it themselves in order for a fair teaching.

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And I managed to be gay without being taught about it.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

And I managed to be gay without being taught about it.

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If you don't mind my asking, who did you seek/speak to for advice, and at what age were you aware of your sexuality? Please tell me to bugger off if this is an innapropriate question!

Rjbetty holds what, imho, is quite a mainstream view.

Homophobia is a very emotive word an people automatically think of active discrimination when it's mentioned. Yet here we have someone that says they don't mind what people do as long as they don't have to condone it. I see very little wrong with this view and although Rjbetty has, as he admits, a homophobic attitude to an extent but it is passive. You cant just change peoples minds because you want to or condemn him out of hand in an intollerant way.

I think we need to be careful when we label people because sometimes, it forces someone into adopting a black or white stance. I don't think it's necessary for someone to be pro-gay as long as they are tollerant and not discriminatory. When we try and force people down channels, they resent.

Overt homophobia and discrimination is the pressing problem that needs to be addressed, not alienating people that are tollerant although not necessarily in agreement.

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Originally Posted by rjbetty

If people preach so much tolerance, maybe they can do something really radical and actually apply that to themselves also, and simply learn to tolerate the fact that some people just can't find it in their conscience to find that homosexual inclinations are good and right. I know people who feel this way, yet I just cannot see them as haters. The ones doing the hating are the people who proudly declare themselves tolerant.

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This sort of thing is heard increasingly now — that those who oppose and criticise the intolerance of others are themselves as intolerant as those they brand intolerant. I think it's nonsense, to be honest. In the case of homophobia, we are asked to believe that those against the opinion that homosexuals are bad, inferior or whatever are as intolerant as those who dismiss an entire group of people on the grounds of sexuality. Same with race, same with whatever other subject you care to mention in which there are opposing views. Take this view to extremes, and the natural conclusion is that some people are against anyone expressing any opinion, ever.

I am tolerant of all races, of all creeds, of all sexualities. I have little time for those who are not. I don't believe the two things are equivalent in the slightest. To do so is an example of very lazy thinking indeed.

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Originally Posted by rjbetty

Is it so wrong to simply mention, no matter how kindly, your opinion when badgered for it, that it simply seems physically incompatible for two males or two females to be intimate in that way? If you think about it, the parts look made for one to fit in the other to me.

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Er, I hate to tell you...