Do You Know the Real Islam?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Hang on a minute, you asked if Christian terrorists bombed innocent people and I gave you a major example of where this is the case. That same group the IRA were funded once upon a time by American companies and naive people in your country who claimed to have Irish roots and gave them money thinking they were supporting a historic cause. little did they know it was a terrorist group that lynched fellow christians with a slightly different faith, and planted bombs in public areas to kill as many people as possible, simply to get a message across to the British government. You can't turn around and say what muslim extremists do is worse because the reasons are slightly different. Any group that uses religion as a reason to kill innocent people is scum of the earth and are to be treated with the same contempt as far as I am concerned.

Just because the groups I have given as an example happen to be of the same religion as you (or Christian at least) does not mean you can treat them in a more lenient fashion Bob. It seems you are trying to single out muslims because they contain members that hate your religion. I myself am not religious so can see this unnecessary violence for what it is without favourism.

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Let's remain in context here (if you ever read thouroughly 'christian" forums, quoting the Bible out of context to support one's dogma runs rampant) my answer was to this statement: "Originally Posted by Dave B


Of course nobody has ever used the Bible to justify their violence, wars, child abuse, murder, homophobia or genocide. Oh....

Any answers have to remain within that context.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I don't see any desperation about referring to the Crusades - deluded Christians forcing their religion down peoples' throats and slitting them if they refused to listen.

Aside from henners' eloquent post about the IRA, how many needless deaths are caused by the Pope telling pooly educated Africans that they mustn't use condoms, contributing to the massive spread of HIV? Or how many deaths can be traced back to Bush and Blair claiming they were doing God's work by poking their unwanted beaks into Iraq? Add to this the untold misery caused by people choosing to interpret the bible to justify their bigotry, homophobia, sexism (how many women priests are there?); or to tell rape victims they can't have abortions?

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Wake up Dave!!. We spent the first half of this thread discussing this.

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Originally Posted by jens

As we know, human has two brain sides for different functions. Left brain is for rational and logical thinking, right one for imagination, beliefs and feelings. Why should we mix them up? In the same way - why should we try to rationally understand faith and, well, god? I think this is the absurd, which people reach during those discussions. I think religious people think and define it in the same way - religion shall not be about rational thinking, it is about soul and heart and that's how it should be. Also imagination, fantasizing and stories are part of it. It is not important whether all the stories in the Bible are proven scientifically correct, but it is important that those stories create a good feeling in us and we can learn something from them.

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The problems start when people actually take the Bible/Koran etc literally. And don't say that this is an out of date idea, because some people actually do believe in a creator and a young Earth. Some of these people have powerful political roles. This is very dangerous.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Then the answer to Dave's question is 'yes'.

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Hmmmm- just who used the Bible, not saying it did not happen, but just who used the Bible to justify killing people the way Muslims are using the Koran?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Are you familiar with the troubles in Northern Ireland Bob?

I think its time to realise that not all terrorists are Islamic.

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No, all terrorists are fanatics, be it for religous reasons, political reasons, racism, --Nazism, communism, right wingers, leftist, animal lovers, christains, Jews, et all or whatever---

I tend to viewthe old Catholic religion and its history about the same as Islam in its current state.

BTW- I keep
daring all you folks to go do all this ranting about religion to some Islam types, face to face, but none of you want to wander over to even Saudi Arabia for a little muttering about religion......Smart move.

Act the liberal in your ivory tower and cite mostly ancient history to justify your point of view.

You defend Islam by saying it is just as bad as Christain religions--well that might have been true some 500 to 1600 years ago...

nevertheless, a Silly argument--sort of like well, many other people get away with murder, why can not I ..... :rolleyes:

PETN coming to a neighborhood near you - Wake up fools

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Hmmmm- just who used the Bible, not saying it did not happen, but just who used the Bible to justify killing people the way Muslims are using the Koran?

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So, what if someone claimed that God was speaking through them and used this to justify the deaths of tens of thousands of people?

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job." George W. Bush, 2004, during the war in Iraq.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Regardless of how badly the rule of the Crusaders may have crapped on a lot of what Jesus said, to point fingers at them and ignore the fact that Muslims had killed the native peoples to take Christian lands is silly.

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Isn't it also rather "silly" to get into a contest over which religion has killed the greater number of people, or how they've killed.

It's hardly a great advertisement for any religion.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I have no idea, but then again not every Islamic terror group bases their hatred on a twisted interpretation of the Koran, do they? It runs alot deeper than that. The fact largely Christian countries have financial interests and forced attempts at trying to gain power of such countries doesn't bode too well when one needs an excuse to hate another country or religion. The less educated amongst us might pin all their ideas of why there is conflict on a "kill ze infidel" interpretation within a holy book, but thats a very simplistic explanation in the grand scheme of things. Sure terror groups preach such garbage but that is but a tiny part of the real problem. If I were to look at your question a bit more deeply, I could argue the bible has been used in the same way because it is what has sculpted a person into believing what they do. Whether there are passages within it that tell them to kill others is irrelevant because if relgion is used in any form, it is based on what that person believes.

The war in Bosnia was fought based on religion because both sides wanted dominance in that region. Both wanted the population to believe what their religion had taught them and killed each other to make that point.

Asking people to fly to a country and incite religious hatred is not only stupid but is hardly a realistic dare is it? You appear to know the least about Islam on this forum and also appear to have some very hatefull views on the subject so why do you not lead by example and give us a summary of what happened to you when you get back?

I have defended the right to believe in all religions as long as its peaceful yet you are only picking up on part of it. The fact you are choosing to ignore the actions of Christian Terror groups in the 20th and 21st century speaks volumes for your arguement and your understanding IMO.

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I don't know why you are trying to defend religion. It has killed millions and millions and now it is the Christians vs the Muslims.
But now the Muslims want to kill the people from the West. If we are not Christian then we are a infidel. I am obviously referring to radical muslims. The problem is water and oil don't mix. People keep trying to make one big melting pot of people and beliefs and it doesn't seem to be working. If one points that out then that person instantly becomes a racist, bigot etc. When will people begin to accept reality!!! Never!!!! -- that is why we will be in a constant state of war. Someone once told me "religion is not for the masses" I now tend to believe him.

The proper mean of ISLAM is that all people who are Muslim people leave crudeness and live with very silently..... The ISLAM is the biggest religion in the world ..and The massage of all muslim people to fill silently and spiritually internally with the god..


At last i say to very friendly do not progress and follow any more trublenss to take a support of ISLAM religion .... thanks a lot all

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

So, what if someone claimed that God was speaking through them and used this to justify the deaths of tens of thousands of people?

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job." George W. Bush, 2004, during the war in Iraq.

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You, Henner and some others are trying to make an analogy where none exists.

The thread is supposed to be about the -"real"Islam. The Koran does contain verses telling Mulsims to kill the infidel, yet some are trying to say the Bible is no different when it is totally different.

This thread is not about simple war which is the lowest common denominator some are trying to reduce it to; its core value is the real Holy Jihad that is the real Muslim religion and is actively engaging in .
Of course what separates Muslims is that blowing up women, children at funerals, church services and other civilian gatherings is fine for Muslims as few to near none are condemning it, while but many are making excuses to justifying it.