Hamilton Stripped of Win - Official

I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

I don't believe that the Stewards are on Ferrari payroll.

I will have to respectfully disagree with FIA on this though. The incident was clear. Hamilton gave the position back and by the next corner, Hamilton was back where he was before the incident, in Kimi's slipstream.

If anything, FIA should have put a hefty fine on Hamilton for the incident and be done with it, like they did with Ferrari in Valencia.

Stealing a win from the race winner in such a fashion is totally unwaranted. If anything, it really puts big question marks over FIA's credibility.

McLaren might win the appeal yet.

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Originally Posted by PSfan

I find it interesting after all the lies coming from Ron Dennis/MacLeran last year, that we can take the "Hamilton slowed down to let Kimi ahead" statement at face value...

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I'm not basing anything on Lewis slowing down. Quite simply, on my TV, the red car went back around the silver car. I'm not aware of any rule which states that the silver car had to allow the red car to remain in front for a specified period of time. If someone can show me that rule, I'd love to see it.

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Fact they dragged raced after the chicane, and Hamilton conceded the position to be on the inside for the next corner is how it appears on replays.

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No, if Kimi had kept his line he would have remained on the inside to the next turn. I like Kimi. But his juking & jiving as they progressed down the straight didn't exactly make him faster or give him the preferred line. Watching it in slow motion, Kimi moved (driver) left to block, then right then left again. His last move to the left put him on the outer radius of the turn and that's what opened the door for Hamilton.

My position is and will continue to be, races should be decided on the race track. I can't stand Massa and I hoped that his Valencia result would NOT be spoiled by a penalty because of his pitlane incident. But apparently some here hope and pray for a political result if the race doesn't yield the desired racing result.

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

For me its not about whether the driver is in the right or the wrong, I believe that the stewards are wrong to change a race result. Does this mean that if Lewis had spun into a wall he would incur no penalty for the alleged indiscretion?

If the stewards had made a prompt decision and issued a drive through penalty DURING THE RACE then the merits of that decision could be argued. To allow the trophies to be presented, and the winning driver to crack the champagne, is unforgivable in my opinion. We must always remember that this is a sport and that a young driver has had a race win taken off him. In my opinion if a penalty decision is reached after the presentation of the trophies then apply the penalty to the next race.

What about the punters who backed Massa and tore up their tickets? There are very large sums of money being wagered on F1 and the racing stewardship, and conduct of F1 events, must be seen to be consistent and predictable and beyond reproach.

I think they announced during the race that the KR and LH incident was being investigated - how long does it take to make a decision???

If they delayed the trophy presentation then so be it but under no circumstance should a race result be changed once the world has been given the impression that the result has been finalised..

I'm a Ferrari fan and believe that this decision is a bad one on many levels but that's just my opinion of course.

:)

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Well, I hate to say this, but in order to make sure the champagne and trophies don't end up in the wrong hands at the end of a race, then they would almost have to postpone the celebrations 3 hours every race to make sure the cars adhere to the rules after every race before declaring winners.

Look at the bright side, how often does a result change after the podium celebration? when was the last time (Prior to this weekends race) that it happened? I prefer this to Nascars taking a way points and fining drivers/teams/crewchiefs for cars that won a race that was way outside the rules.

Originally I thought it didn't make sense to strip a driver of a win on what was arguably a close call, but the more I look at the replays, the less close it looks to me...

The official transcripts on the FIA site say thus:
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...ges/conf4.aspx

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I left him enough room, yet he accelerated or picked up more pace going into the corner, and drove me as wide as he possibly could. I had no road left. There was a question I had to ask: if I stay where I am, I'm going to go over the Astroturf… there's some green bit behind the big kerb, the last kerb… and go over it and hit him. Or I go left. That was the option I had to do, I did it. I knew that I had to let him past and also the team came over the radio and said 'you have to let him past' which I did. I was accelerating so that I didn't lose too much ground because I thought that would be unfair.

This is motor racing and if there's a penalty, then there's something wrong because I was ahead going into that corner, so I didn't gain an advantage from it. We were still able to race at the next corner and I gave him his spot back, and I think it was fair and square, so I think it would be absolutely wrong. But you know what they're like, so we will see.

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-Lewis Hamilton

He claims he was told to slow down and let Raikkonen through, but then again as the protagonist you'd expect a) him to say that and b) everyone else to expect him to say that.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

The official transcripts on the FIA site say thus:
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...ges/conf4.aspx


-Lewis Hamilton

He claims he was told to slow down and let Raikkonen through, but then again as the protagonist you'd expect a) him to say that and b) everyone else to expect him to say that.

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Fair enough. McLaren are appealing the case, and it will be heard by officials other than the original race stewards, and they will provide telemetry and communication records.

The telemetry will show whether he did slow down and by how much to let Kimi re-pass.

Well, I will offer here my well-educated analysis, and I'll try to keep it brief

The incident in question began as Hamilton was in Kimi's slipstream, and dived out of it to make a pass entering the bus stop chicane.

Note here that Lewis is attempting an outside pass. Think back to successful outside passes, they are generally accomplished by arriving at the apex of the turn well ahead of the car being passed. In this case, Hamilton was actually behind Raikkonen at the apex point. No good F1 driver, certainly not a WDC, will care at this point how much road he leaves for the driver who is attempting the overtake, because he clearly beat the driver and owns the corner.

Now, it's up to the overtaking driver, in this case Hamilton, to recognize that most any driver is going to use up all of the exit.

Had Hamilton conceded defeat in the overtake, he would have had to closely follow Raikkonen through the left-hand exit of the chicane. Hamilton could not have been on the throttle as quickly as Raikkonen because he would have had to wait to hit the throttle on corner exit until Raikkonen's car began to accellerate. Most F1 overtakes are the clear result of a driver with a certain gap taking a corner at a higher rate of speed and carrying more onto the next straight. If the gap is zero (as it was with Lewis still alongside), the concertina effect occurs and there is no speed advantage relative to distance.

So here, Hamilton cuts the chicane, thus eliminating the effect of following Raikkonen through the corner and having to accelerate at the same point on the corner exit, which would have had a distancing effect between the two cars.

Now they are both on the pit straight. In my opinion, Hamilton, having entered the track at a point ahead of Raikkonen, was problably accelerating as hard as possible on the dirty and damp part of the track, allowing Raikkonen the good lauch and he to accelerate past Hamilton.

However, at this point the McLaren was much closer to the Ferrari than would have been possible if Hamilton had made the previous corner.

So, net gain goes to Hamilton, allowing him to be close enough to dive down the inside of Raikkonen into La Source.

Fernando Alonso did the exact same thing in Suzuka a few years back, and he was subsequently told to slow down on track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lteu8yVzIOQ Watch at 1:20 - 2:00.

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Originally Posted by 71minus2

all in all its a shame that ferrari had to complain when the recipient of the alleged unfair treatment couldn't hack the pressure, ran wide and stacked his car into the fence!

There is only 1 loser in this crappy affair, and thats the F1 fans who paid shed loads of money to watch the "race" and the millions who wasted their time watching the TV.

Off to wop land next week. Another Ferrari fixed win must be on the cards.

F1 is now officially a joke.

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"WOP LAND??" That's pretty immature and could be considered blatantly rude and bigoted. Just goes to show some people's intelligence and inability to get their point across without name calling.

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Originally Posted by yodasarmpit

For the first time in years I didn't see all of the race, but the fact that ioan doesn't think it's a fair punishment says it all to me :D

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Yep, same here :D

I couodn't watch the race live either, and after watching the incident on Youtube and reading about the news, I thought "I wonder what ioan thinks".

The opening page was a bliss. Ioan and F1boat saying that they thought the penalty was not justified said it all! :)

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Originally Posted by Shifter

Well, I will offer here my well-educated analysis, and I'll try to keep it brief

The incident in question began as Hamilton was in Kimi's slipstream, and dived out of it to make a pass entering the bus stop chicane.

Note here that Lewis is attempting an outside pass. Think back to successful outside passes, they are generally accomplished by arriving at the apex of the turn well ahead of the car being passed. In this case, Hamilton was actually behind Raikkonen at the apex point. No good F1 driver, certainly not a WDC, will care at this point how much road he leaves for the driver who is attempting the overtake, because he clearly beat the driver and owns the corner.

Now, it's up to the overtaking driver, in this case Hamilton, to recognize that most any driver is going to use up all of the exit.

Had Hamilton conceded defeat in the overtake, he would have had to closely follow Raikkonen through the left-hand exit of the chicane. Hamilton could not have been on the throttle as quickly as Raikkonen because he would have had to wait to hit the throttle on corner exit until Raikkonen's car began to accellerate. Most F1 overtakes are the clear result of a driver with a certain gap taking a corner at a higher rate of speed and carrying more onto the next straight. If the gap is zero (as it was with Lewis still alongside), the concertina effect occurs and there is no speed advantage relative to distance.

So here, Hamilton cuts the chicane, thus eliminating the effect of following Raikkonen through the corner and having to accelerate at the same point on the corner exit, which would have had a distancing effect between the two cars.

Now they are both on the pit straight. In my opinion, Hamilton, having entered the track at a point ahead of Raikkonen, was problably accelerating as hard as possible on the dirty and damp part of the track, allowing Raikkonen the good lauch and he to accelerate past Hamilton.

However, at this point the McLaren was much closer to the Ferrari than would have been possible if Hamilton had made the previous corner.

So, net gain goes to Hamilton, allowing him to be close enough to dive down the inside of Raikkonen into La Source.

Fernando Alonso did the exact same thing in Suzuka a few years back, and he was subsequently told to slow down on track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lteu8yVzIOQ Watch at 1:20 - 2:00.

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Wow, someone who makes a sensible point without name calling! You, sir, are a rarity on this forum!

That must be what the stewards were thinking, but I will wait until the outcome of the appeal to see what the actual decision is. Either way is fine with me - it was an exciting and memorable race which may end up being an infamous race...

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Originally Posted by Mickey T

i hope it's incompetence and i hope it's rectified on appeal.

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Wise words from a wise man. I hope you are right, or this sport will turn many fans away.