Rumored 2009 IC Schedule

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Originally Posted by indycool

...IMO, Osama bin Laden doesn't even have the numbers of people who hate something so much...

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Are you really comparing TG to Osama Bin Laden?

While I don't respect TG as a leader or a businessman, I'd be very cautious about comparing him to a murderous terrorist.

Sure, both of them 'blew-up' something. And while the Indy 500 has been completely destroyed as we knew it, it can be rebuilt (but only if a competent leader is found).

But I'm certain that Bin Laden has way more than 10% of people who hate him so much they'd kill him with their bare hands. TG probably has less than .010% who feel this way.

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Originally Posted by -Helix-

I guess the World Series isn't a worthy championship anymore either considering baseball's popularity has declined considerably over the years and has been surpassed by football by a large margin.

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So the World Series involves one team competing against itself for the championship?

And that's the problem with apples to oranges comparisons.

No, not at all. I'm comparing the number of people you are picturing who are so hateful of TG that they won't watch a unified series. I think it to be very few...LOUD, but few.

Internet forums are loud, but few. After 12 years, all the fussin's bein' done on the forums, not in the stands, not on TV and not by the competitors or sponsors. That is in NO way representative of the fan in the stands who doesn't even know anything about a split in the first place or care like the folks in Edmonton, who weren't even ever involved in the split, but relished a bigger field and the drivers and cars from Indy, together with competitors they were familiar with, to run there.

You and the CW jihad just don't represent a lot of people. Your 100th of a percent who hate TG enough to switch off the TV is probably high.

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Originally Posted by -Helix-

When baseball is back at it's rightful place at the top, THEN it can rightfully be called the World Series.

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Or when they invite teams from all over the World to participate? It always seemed odd to me that it was a "World" series for American and one Canadian team...

Gary

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Ken, you want me to respond to your post 177 so here goes.

How do I know that IRL won't fall into the same problems as CART/CC? I responded to that in my last post. He doesn't have to try and satisfy a board of directors that only have their best interests at heart. He can look out for the sport as a whole. I know you think he's only looking out for himself/IMS. But lets think about that for a second. Your argument seems to be that he threw away Vegas and Loudon to "protect" IMS. What if it is the oposite? What if he thinks, like I do, that Vegas will be a failure because those fans have been poisioned to OW racing by the fiasco last year, and the Loudon's deal wasn't all it was cracked up to be? Couldn't that be seen as looking out for the sport as a whole?

Your specific questions now:
1) The current ICS is closer to CART than the "vision". No CART had a majority of road/street races, the "vision" was all ovals. Current ICS is 10-8 ovals. Simple math says closer to all ovals.

2) I've never heard that the city of Homestead is/was putting up cash for the race. But if they are so what? Maybe I'm missing something?

"so how is TG and the IRL going to keep the IRL from becomeing 15 rc/sc v 5 ovals as the schedule progresses over the next 2 to 5 years"
What evidence do you have that says he will? What will keep him from dropping all the road/street races and become "the vision" again? No one knows. Like IC says "time will tell", but I'm betting that the ICS is >50% ovals for quite a while.

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wow....good to see you finnally got on the same page as the rest of us...and thanks for a reasoned response...

but my apologies as it simply doesn't hold up

here's why

you argument biols down to ...'it's privatly owned, and TG doesn't have a board of directors to contend with'..

problem is (as I have previosly pointed out) those same power brokers of the sport that were leaders and players in CC and CART are currently in competitiors in the IRL....of coarse were talking specifically schedule here....

those players are signifacantly involved in the schedule....AGR: st Pete, Toronto.....Penske: Belle Isle......and Kalkoven: Long beach.....hey, Suprise they those all just happen to be street coarses added to the schedule in place of ovals the past 4 seasons

then thers Honda.... they would even play ball to Long Beach on the schedule for the Merger.....


so no Board of directors?... true... influentual power players who need to be appeased? absolutly

as to your point about 10/8 Ovals v Road makes the IRL still more vision than CARII.... well you conviently aren't factoring in (sorry it's just a fact) influental power broker team owners, engine leases, street coarses, spec cars and engines, foriegn built chassis and engines, ...

sory got to cut this short my daughter needs a bit of help with home work

but add an etc or two to last paragraph...you get the picture...it's not just schedule..


and to your last paragraph...'no one knows, time will tell'...

well I watched CART/CC follow the same path for a decede the IRL has been headed the past 4 yeras....right into BK....and of coarse the CURRENT HISTORY AND REALITY support that....'I believe TG has an affinity for real racecoarses doesn't'

Ken, you believe that cities around the world are just lusting after street races and I disagree.

With taxpayers in major markets supporting stadiums for football and baseball teams, adding a race track has run afoul of that, as was the case with ISC in Washington and Staten Island. As with the shenanigans with the San Joses, Denvers and Vegases in this country, any city doing due diligence is going to wait awhile if not forever. Heitzler could not get anything going in San Antonio or Palm Springs.

Certainly, there are various sources of power within the sport. Without race tracks, you don't have races. Without money and sponsors, you don't have teams. Without TV viewers, you don't have ratings. Without fans in attendance, you don't have promoters. Without engines, tires or cars, you're a pedestrian.

The trick for racing is to build solid business relationships among all of those entities. With that MANY entities, it ain't easy.

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Originally Posted by indycool

I'm comparing the number of people you are picturing who are so hateful of TG that they won't watch a unified series.

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Where do you think that hundreds of thousands of TV viewers have gone to that left after the split? Do you think they lying to Neilsen and secretly watching the IRL?

AOWR lost HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of fans during the last 12 years. They have not yet returned. Nor are they about to return anytime in the near future.

Those that wanted spec racing on oval tracks turned to watching The NASCAR Show (which saw it's rise in popularity coincide with the decline in AOWR). And while NASCAR offers a package that can at times be entertaining, there is a market for something different.

The problem I see, is that a bunch of old mid-western people are pontificating on what is best for the sport when the future of the sport depends on getting the young coast dwellers to watch, attend and participate.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Or when they invite teams from all over the World to participate? It always seemed odd to me that it was a "World" series for American and one Canadian team...

Gary

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And Honda won the Indy 500 because it was the best engine in the field?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

but I'm betting that the ICS is >50% ovals for quite a while.

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cool.... wanta take the bet I proposed to IC?


it's a good bet, I agree with IC....Louden looks good for 2010 IMO also

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Originally Posted by indycool

Heitzler could not get anything going in San Antonio or Palm Springs.

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very well could have been more a case of 'Mergermania'....with tracks like LB and toronto on the plate those may not have been given as much attention ...AT THE TIME