Quite interesting that Tänak is 1st to test for Sweden.
There are many videos in twitter from today.
Printable View
Quite interesting that Tänak is 1st to test for Sweden.
There are many videos in twitter from today.
What`s interesting? He has the less amount of mileage in the car, so quite logical (plus he isn`t local and it`s Christmas.:D).
I assume he need more mileage in that car.
Would be easier for him if JM/EP had done basic set-up ready, OTT has no time to waste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
Well, that car has already competed and won in Sweden so they already have quite a good base to modify according to his driving.
I think they already have a good basic setupQuote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
How many?Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
well here is another one from you :D https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/s...58128411541504
some more clips from this user https://twitter.com/se_rally/status/942743748215300098
https://twitter.com/se_rally/status/942735353919746050
https://twitter.com/se_rally/status/942728958763823105
5 ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartusvuori
someone has also uploaded the video to youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_irN2UloIOU
if you pause at 0:07, they have gone back to old frontal air inlet? actually it seems like a mix of old and new one.
Photos of Tänak today https://twitter.com/rallyparadise/st...12043632226304
They have indeed made some changes with frontal air inlet
That car has all official WRC stickers in windscreen...
Both Monte and Sweden may have snowbanks, so maybe they start using "new" aero after those two.
Maybe? It’s the old front actually. But they tested with the new one for Monte. Maybe because Sweden is colder they don’t need that new larger air inlet?
They don´t want snow inside "cooler"Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
"Rallirinki" also noticed new small aero pieces in front of door mirrors
New video from Rally Paradise with Tänak test in Finland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9s0rucu9Mg
https://wrcwings.wordpress.com/2017/...ecember-tests/
If I understand correctly that site is dedicated to aerodynamics.
nice longer vid of Tänak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS0Kjrfmh_0
Interesting how Hyundai basically copied Toyota's radical mirror design.. Could not be more obvious. Surprised Toyota does not have a patent on such a unique design feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
First of all normally it takes around two years before patent application is granted and published which is way too long for motorsport. And then from my experience in automotive R&D the large companies don't pay for most of the patents. They use them as a lever on another patent holders so that in the end they trade using patents without actually paying something. The downside of that is that they tend to patent nearly everything with very vague description...Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
Latvala: https://youtu.be/gdck2fFLo8w
Mix Ogier / Evans by Zagatoï: https://youtu.be/gPMLhz4bDhM
Latvala today
https://twitter.com/64peejii/status/943502120724193281
and tonight...
https://twitter.com/64peejii/status/943502258775437312
No stickers in windshield, and no lights in frontbumber.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
one more video with Lappi testing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBEx...em-uploademail
Ironically I'm an patent attorney registered to practice in both AUS and US. A few years ago, yes it would take a year or longer to get a patent filed. It all depends on the entity who is filing the patent. Small entities (solo inventors) do not get any priority. Some of the firms in the US actually are close to the patent examiners in DC so I have seen design patents get filed in less than one year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The new rules for the USPTO and PCT now have a "first to file application" which basically gives rights to the first person to file their invention. In this case if Toyota were to file a patent on their mirror they would have rights to their design even if it is copied a few months after. It probably is not worth it, but it was such a novel design I can see all the other teams copying their idea. Who knows, you might see this for hyper cars too...
I've actually filed several patents for powersport companies such as Ohlins (motorcross applications) and a few US powersport companies. You would be surprised how tech is copied from motorsport and applied to everyday use. Ohlins and Custom Cages have filed a few utility patents on motorsport applications which were later copied by competitors. They didn't earn millions, but it was a decent amount.
Ford of USA, BMW and VWAG are good examples of companies who file patents galore. You can see some of their crazy filings by doing a search using google patents.
Is it worth it for Toyota... probably not, but it was a cool design for sure. I agree not all motorsport ideas are worth protecting, but the good ones are.
Actually I am listed as a co-inventor in two recent patent applications in Europe so I will see myself how long will it take. Anyway thanks for the reply.
Is the chirping under braking a pop off valve or part of the braking system?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
racerx1979 out of curiosity, how would you word your patent application on the Toyota mirrors?
I personnaly do not see it novel at all, for example comparing it to the F1 car mirrors, i.e. using the mirror stays for air flow management.
If I am not mistaken this is sound of blow-off valve, i.e. the valve which opens when the throttle valve is closed and when the turbo presses the air against the wall (and by that it would normally slow down/stop itself creating a massive lag).Quote:
Originally Posted by Revman
That is awesome! Congrats and best of luck. I think thr European system is a lot better than the US system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
You’re on the right end of the stick for sure. I’ve written many applications but never been listed as an inventor even when helping clients with design. I’ll hopefully file a few patents of my own in the near future.
A design patent in conjunction with a utility patent is the best IMO. For design patents it’s all about the design of the object. Drawings are key in this case. You can make several versions of the design and some very simplified drawings to cover every aspect of the design. This prevents any copies which are similar. When we used to file designs for an eye wear company we would file 6-8 different versions of their sunglass designs. This was the only way they could fight against sneaky counterfeiters who would slightly change the design hoping they could get around the patent. Didn’t work! Mainly because they had a strong design patent and a strong legal team :). That being said any monkey can file a patent. Protecting it is where money comes in. If you’re a large entity nobody will mess with you...Quote:
Originally Posted by NickRally
If you look at the Hyundai mirror from ten feet away and then look at the Toyota you see no difference. Toyota could have easily prevented Hyundai from copying their mirror design with a good design patent which includes several embodiments. The utility patent might be able to protect th function, but we all know the function is not novel unless Toyota has something others don’t. In the end it’s probably not worth it, but a good design patent would cost 5k and might force Hyundai to choose a completely different design.... but I’m sure Toyota could care less as mirrors do not win races.
I just though it was a unique design and to see Hyundai doing the same is kind of funny to me...
Anyways let’s move this to another thread since this about tests and I don’t want to ruin this great thread with boring ass patent talk.
I can appreciate your professional background and therefore you could be looking at the "Toyota" mirrors from a certain perspective. But keep in mind that this style of mirror was run on DTM cars long before WRC 2017. And by next year all GT cars would have the same. So by far it's not a unique design by anyone. We did do a CFD study of this design before 2017 but thought it was pushing the rules a bit too much; Toyota went ahead with it and was allowed to run with a small modification by removing the slot, as I understand. They did it again (pushing the rules) for the 2018 front end, and I say well done to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
It does bring an interesting point about patents in motorsport. I think the main problem is, no matter how fast the process, by the time something is protected by the patent, it's already yesterday's news. Also, could one really justify the novelty of a winglet or some aero device because it pushes the air a bit this way rather than that way...? I hope not. I do believe Renault or McLaren patented their inerter design a while ago; Nick can you comment?
One thing to keep in mind about all these "aero developments" in WRC is that, by the time you put a hatchback shape in the wind tunnel/CFD and run a thousand iterations, you would find there are really only one or two optimum ways to deal with the air. Give it a few more updates and all the cars will look exactly the same! Convergence baby!
I’m definitely looking at this from a biased perspective and also agree with your thoughts. I did notice similar designs for DTM and F1 cars. It’s nice to see companies like Toyota taking the leap in aero for rally cars and seeing others follow suite.
Thank you for your response!
anyone knows when the teams will be testing again? next week or after the season launch at autosport show?
ERR sport said that Tänak will test 2.january in South France
Don't think this of Lappi snow testing has been posted.
https://youtu.be/OQVNF2Vmlgo
Toyota testing today...dunno who exactly at the moment but i guess it is Tänak.