As said before, some hay bales doesn´t lower the top speeds on a stage. And the safety reason from FIA falls.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
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As said before, some hay bales doesn´t lower the top speeds on a stage. And the safety reason from FIA falls.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
I guess they have to place it properly then. I don't see any reason why hay ball can't reduce top speeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
That's pretty basic thinking statement. It may be worse because of the higher chances for that to happen, but even for kids its known that the higher the speed, the worst the impact will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Rumours about Abbring competing the first rally of the Belgian Championship with the Peugeot Belgium 208 R5.
That would surely mean the end of his contract with Hyundai.
I do repeat, it's a rumour but comming from the biggest autosport magazine in Belgium.
That's pretty simplistic thinking too. A sudden impact at 50mph can put more energy to the occupants of a car than a big roll at 100mph. Think about McRae's accident in Corsica in the Focus (forget what year) and compare it to Burns in Finland (Subaru, big roll at the flying finish) or Tommi's big off at Argentina when he was with Subaru. Cutting speeds on a stage doesn't automatically make it safer, it's all completely relative.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Well, it's your interpretation simplistic, not what I have said. I don't compare different possibilities. Same kind of incident can happen on any place, doesn't matter straight or turn. In such cases, speed can be the difference between life and death.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJan
The impact of 2017 rules appearing, like Ostberg's wing flying off ?
http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home...2017-wrc-rules
Citroen/Matton on their poor start:
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/febru...5--12-12-.html
Agreed. Just look at Camilli's onboard from Monte Carlo in 2016 when he crashed out. Wasn't going faster than he would on a straight, but his impact with a tree was big enough to wreck the roll cage. The A pillar on his car was inches away from hitting him in the face. High speed rolls are something drivers usually gets away with.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Not my interpretation. You wrote: "the higher the speed, the worst the impact will be." but that's not always the case, hence why your view is simplistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Two accidents I mentioned. One is flat out in 6th gear, taking what you wrote that means worse impact because it's higher speed. Except that it wasn't, driver and co-driver walked away. The other is much slower, still quick but probably 3rd or 4th gear. The drive was trapped and injured.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGvnvfWlwqc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMhSiKG6wfs
I'm not saying that speed doesn't have a bearing sometimes, just that there are a lot of factors and a high speed straight doesn't make a stage unsafe. A blanket ban on quick stages doesn't automatically make rallying safe, and a succession of stages over 130kph doesn't mean it's automatically dangerous either. THere is balance...but the FIA lacks that.
watch from 4,30. Loeb Norway before 8 years.....
https://youtu.be/yyb0Fs08JY4?t=267
Ok, fine. I should have added that I'm talking about the same kind of incident. Sorry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJan
Cool, hasn't seen this one before, i was marshall at stageend on this one:)Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk
Colin Clark said in his post-Sweden vlog that the fast stage that was cancelled was a boring one anyway... long straight-turn-long straight-turn etc. He said we want roads with variety... and he's right.
So its the choice of roads that is the problem, not the cars. If Knon hadnt been newly-introduced then we wouldnt be having all this debate.
Are there any rumours of new manufacturers coming to WRC in near future 18/19 season for example ? Its rather boring right now with 4 manufacturers...
nobody forces you to watch if you find something boring. No new manufacturers in the near future, sorry kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by mm77
Nice trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by mm77
Can I save that quote to use back at you?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
The real question is why did the FIA approve this stage in the first place? Maybe it's time for FIA to hire some drivers/co-drivers with recent experience on top level...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
We drove Knon before the event, and I thought the average would be higher than it actually was.
Anyway it's ridiculous to ban stages over 130kph average, as some said here, it doesn't have anything to do with safety.
Where did you find these complaints? Looks like I've missed them somehow... Anyway, on saturday night I talked to the driver of the FIA safety car. I asked why they approved it in the first place, didn't get an answer about that, apart from that he said they (FIA/Michèle Mouton) recommended to cancel it because of the high average speed, not because of some particular safety issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
I think I heard a comment from Ogier saying the speeds were getting too fast, all of the other drivers seemed to think the speed was fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
Go awayQuote:
Originally Posted by mm77
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Kalle Rovanperä is leading rally vaakuna in Finnish championship by 12.6 sec after 2 ss! huge pace he has. Awesome talent for sure. Lets see if he is driving wales rally later this year. He is 17 years by then. Malcolm already called him ;)
If Ogier says the speed is getting too fast, eveybody listen. He was World Champion four times in a row. The others...not!Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelBen
Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Really? What sort of stages do you run? Because ALL, every one i have done start at ZERO and then I gas it as hard and long as I can---rev limiter was set so top speed was 105mph or approx 170km/hr...and oddly enough in a 90 degree T junction on one lane road, speed is for the heroes about the same PEAK lowest around 25mph, or right about 40 km/hr (the difference to the real guys being how well they use their MUCH superior brakes approaching the corner, and how quickly and how hard they are on the gas exiting...but time and again when there is any speed display---even for Loeb or top WRC guys, watch and you'll see it dip to 40km/hr for an instant before bang they're gone)
So where have you been that there's stages that don't have big ups and downs in terms of speed?
Isn't genetics amazing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thousandlakes
I may be wrong, but if you are not providing any kind of analyses, you can't pretend to be right either.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Not presenting analysis? Analysis? Actually I was being extremely polite in showing how that statement you made and which I empasisied was flat wrong in my personal experience on Stages in USA (Mainly the PNW and The NE, and Michigan--also western Canada (Alberta) and Quebec..And from observining Club, Nationals and WRC events in France, England and Sweden...and talking with drivers and organizers...Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
And it was a question: what kind of stages have you done where you don't start at zero and go whatever the car will do//whatever you dare on the straights?
You MAY be right for the stages you've done, but I don't know who you are, where you've been to develop what sounds to me to be a crazy misunderstanding..
And, I didn't know there was a rule somewhere that says if a question one statement, I must offer an "analysis'' of what? What I'm questions..
Show me in the Constitution where it says I must provide analysis when asking somebody how they arrived at an anomalous opinion!
I was flat wrong? Boy, you are real american pro. Good lack fining many 40km turns on a stages with avg speed above 120km.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
what some seem to forget, is that not every competitor drives a super safe wrc car.
further back in the order there can be amateurs that drive a home build group N car that will do 230km/h or more if the straight is long enough. cars that are nowhere near as safe, nowhere near as well maintained en nowhere near as well driven, but with a driver that still keeps his right foot down.
i can tell you from my personal experience that driving an old homemade clio at a local rallysprint at 210km/h through a corner that is "maybe flatout", is scary.
Neuville won all 8 stages on today's Legend Boucles de Bastogne...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4-k4YzWQAA7FnH.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4-k4YuXUAE5pp7.jpg
what makes a WRC car supersafe ?Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Every safety feature from rollcage, belts, helmet to fire extinguisher has to be FIA certified. So every car is supposed to have the same basic safety standards as the WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
The 'home built' stuff will still have homologated roll cages...although a bit of a moot point seeing as anything entering a WRC round isn't going to be home built anyway...in fact a good portion of the field comes from exactly the same place as the car that Ogier is driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
I wonder how many of you slagging the FIA over this issue have ever driven a stage at over 130kph average. Or listened to competitors views on the matter.
Like others, I had read that Ogier voiced his concerns. No doubt others did also.
It's nothing new. In 1993 Rally NZ a stage in the Waikato was cancelled as the WRC teams (incl. McRae, Auriol, Kankunnen, Sainz, Delecour etc...) all complained that it was too fast. Not a 're-run' stage so they hadn't driven it at all at rally speed but instinctively knew that it would be too fast.
In '95 the return of the mighty Motu stage was cancelled when the WRC teams (many of the same as '93) complained it would be too rough having already been run once in the opposite direction.
At the end of the day this is a matter of stage/road selection and that's the responsibility of the organisers. The FIA just issue the guidelines.
I agree with Sollitt about the road selection by organisers. I have been road director for quite a few events and will be for many more in the future, picking the roads if you are not a knowledgeable competitor as well can be quite hard. I'm lucky enough that I have run at the top level in Australia in both gravel and tarmac events, this gives me enough background to write a good roadbook I believe. I have been to rallies written by people who don't understand how fast the cars can go now, these events I just don't attend now. About 10 years ago at Targa Tasmania tarmac rally we competed on a stage where we found out the M3R still had the speed limiter on it at 255kmh. The stage was dangerous and all the competitors voted for it not to be included again, it hasn't been back in it's full length since.
Currently setting a rally through farmland with some forests, first part of one stage cars will be quite fast up to 210kmh and then at the final forest part there are tight twisty sections down to 40kmh. The fast area I believe is less dangerous than the forest area with less to hit and fast flowing corners with no fences. Only problem will be Kangaroos as there are thousands out there.
Ray
You are seemingly like the worst sort of pure troll..Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
I've asked which stages you have done--at which events, to TRY to understanf where you formed your opinions..
Dodging that 3 times, lack of name..
I have no idea who you are, where you come from, what you have done--or NOT..
And while were at it no I'm not an American pro---not at this motorsport. And only 1/2 American at that so bite me.
But I don't bob and weave and hide about where I did my motorsport and what my name is..
3 times..
The only comments I saw in regard to it was a driver (forget who, possibly Paddon or Meeke) saying that they didn't think the stage was dangerous, just boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
And the FIA are bound to take a bit of negativity on this, they've introduced faster cars with more aero but are now looking to limit them.
Actually they don't want to directly limit them, they want to limit the time when they are at their max speed. I think it's more a message to rally organizers to find more interesting roads. Unfortunately some of them will probably just use hay bales. Or big tractors or whatever they have at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJan