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If I'm not mistaken, Citroën has been using BOS or their own, but BOS-derived dampers for years, from the C2 S1600 to the DS3 WRC. What's intersting is PSA's turn to Öhlins as of late, but that's OFF here. :D As far as that goes, I think that with the right amount of money, all the mentioned companies are capable of delivering a damper that is competitive with the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Mäkinen wants to use BOS because they have used them on their Gr.N Subaru, the main reason I think is Lasse Lampi is BOS importer for the nordic countries and Lasse has a long history with Mäkinen.
This is actually something alot of people wonder about as there in all fairness are more established suppliers out ther.. like the ones you mentioned for instance
Citroen buy various parts from BOS for their WRC cars and assembles them themselves(same as they used to do with Exe-Tc in the past until ~2010)
Dampers as a whole is kind of rocket-science, I guess. But - and it´s a but - the parts one of each other isn´t rocket science. So why dont they build their own dampers/suspension sets? To my knowledge there is so many technicians working with dampers on daily basis who could put together proper equipment, isn´t it?
Toyota Yaris WRC - Test Italy 2015 Day 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1bWBACnqsw
Wow! That was something else, looks much faster. Set up looks good, maybe a little slow on the rebound from side to side, but looking WRC fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
Some small driver errors at:
0:57 A little bit to early turn ins and to early apex points in the corners before leads to a to wide exit at 0.57 where the weight is heading in the wrong direction, leading to a bit much sideways force to late in the corner. But this is in minute detail.
1:05 Missing the apex point. Has trouble with the direction change of the weight/forces, so sideways force pushes the car away from the apex point, and delays acceleration. But if the inside is very bumpy, difficult to see in the film, this could be on purpose.
2:06 Turns in to early, and the corner is too long, so he ends up going straight to the outside missing the apex, and delaying acceleration. Maybe not a biggy, but this is how You loose to Ogier.
2:40 Hitting a bump on the inside of the hairpin, affecting acceleration in the most important part of the corner - the early exit. Leading me to think that it could be faster with a wider line trough the corner, keeping 30-40 cm away from the apex. This is why 1.05 could be on purpose. (Much better at 3.53)
3:14 Maybe a little too much body roll, and a little to little rebound on the body roll? Could have had som progression in the anti roll bar maybe?
The driving gets faster at the end of the video. Either a change of driver, or a progression of driving and/or set up.
All in all very good, and if it had not been for the video saying Camilli, I would have guessed Hirvonen - at least for the last part. Cool!
Perfectly analyzed... ;)
Compared to previous days it's indeed like day and night.
For me it looked like they didn´t push at all the first days...? Maybe also on purpose. Which I couldn´t reccon.
wow looks really pretty over there and also the roads, that's where they should do Rally Italia and not Sardegna.Quote:
Originally Posted by danon
Again the K-AM 1422. Looks better than the K-AM 1411
Some photos from the gravel test in Spain
https://www.facebook.com/joseignacio...=3&pnref=story
K-AM 1422 here as well
Italy has so many beautiful regions. Sardegna is an interesting one but maybe not classically beautiful like the north in the alps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
Doing rallies in the mountains has safety implications I guess though which is probably the main reason rallies aren't held in Northern Italy's alp ranges as the drops are massive and would kill anyone who went off.
Don't get me wrong... I agree with you, the mountains of the North are a much better backdrop than Sardegna.
Apparently Makinen intends to base Toyota operation in Jyvaskyla.
Source (in Finnish, I am afraid): http://yle.fi/uutiset/paivakoti_ei_p...ylassa/8347646
I understand the pro's but I am afraid Tommi doesn't appreciate the con's.
And what might you think the biggest cons are?Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
I think Sardinia is perfect because of the variety of terrain and compact nature - this year's Saturday programme was a perfect day's spectating.
Location. Though it's good for testing, as Tommi says, it's remote. They'll have longer commute and supply routes to events which costs more and team personnel and equipment will spend more time on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
But most importantly, what about team personnel? Who are they going to hire for key positions? I see only bad options:
-locals (good for manual labour, sure)
-people willing to relocate to icy reaches (whose intellect that puts into doubt)
-people working remotely from civilization (not an ideal way to work in a team)
Folks, relax. We are not talking a remote dark ages place here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyv%C3%A4skyl%C3%A4
Jyvaskyla has 130 000 people, university (that he can cooperate with), airport and it takes aprox 2,5 hours to get to Helsinki by car if you need to. So logistically no issues in my book. Everything does not have to be located in downtown Europe to be a winner!
I support Tommi in using his country, that has shown over the last 30 years they have a special gift in bringing up people that are quick.
Why should they not be able to making quick and durable cars as well!
- The "locals" are the people behind Nokia.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
- Icy reaches will let them be able to do frequent tests on snow, they can test on tarmac in fall and spring to simulate the Monte, and also on frozen lakes.
- Jyvaskyla: One of the nicest towns I've been in, and great potential to take this project personal - in a good way. Passion and team spirit!
To "isolate" the group in Finland can be positive, because You can build a family that work and live together.
Compare to the Hyundai WRC factory situated in a German industrial area.
No Germans care of who the tenants are in that building.
Its a LOOONG way to go to test on relevant gravel roads.
And its difficult to build up that family feeling.
Finland is the rally capitol og the world, and I would believe a bigger percentage of Finns know who Loeb is, than the French.
I think the Toyota WRC factory in Finland has the potential of being truly great!
Genuine question - is Finland good for general varied gravel testing or simply for Rally Finland?
I think a lot of the testing implications seem to be moot as, apart from shaking down their cars locally, all the teams seem to travel to do any serious pre-event testing. I doubt they will do a load of local tarmac tests for example.
I do agree that Jyvaskyla is a nice place and the locals will not only appreciate it, but actively try to help the team.
Well, M-sport is located in the middle of nowhere in a remote island and they have managed fine. Don't think travelling costs are an issue for Toyota. Ok, it might them one more day to get ti central Europe. But a lot of material is airlifted anyway, so no big deal. Sourcing people. Well, the opportunity to work for top WRC-team is such a draw that that should not be a problem either
Jonka I looked on map for Puuppola and I see that in addition to millions of km of fantastic gravel roads, there are actually some things that look like highways...yeah! Really! And i bet those highways go someplace---eventually...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jonkka
But it's nothing that planning can't solve---and a operation like this is really ALL about planning, so no problem.
On the City web sajt it says they actually have some schools:
That means at least there is electricity and phones and probably even internet connection.Quote:
The University of Jyväskylä and the JAMK University of Applied Sciences are among the most popular higher education institutions in Finland.
And I bet it works..
You do bring up very serious points about finding people willing to relocate and live in remote place by normal civilised standards but maybe we can agree that for rally driving, rally mechanicing and especially basic designs that a absolute need is the ability to concentrate and to be what I call "Mission directed"...to concentrate on the task.
Certainly anybody applying to work there must be aware of that and have worked out the balancing act in their head needed..
Nothing at a high level like this is a 9 to 5 job..
My only thought is the enormous difficulty--the virtual impossibility---of rapidly learning Finnish for those times when the imported talent is not busy designing, inventing, welding, machining, testing..
But with a University there I imagine that the imported talent can have opportunity to meet and get to know one of Finlands best home grown products: the friendly Finnish women...:love:
And then they will probably be very happy employees...:beer:
Tommi Mäkinen - buying decisions next week... http://yle.fi/uutiset/tommi_makinen_...ikolla/8361901
@tmgofficial at Tokyo Motor Show with Yaris Gravel Test version ..
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSgZ8c4WEAIn7ut.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSgZ8a0WEAAZsRb.jpg
Words can't describe how ugly that thing is. Hopefully it works well at least .
More beautiful black wheels..:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Got to listen to the 18 year old fashion consultants.
(barf)
Why do wheel manufacturers go along with this stupid fad---you can't even see the wheels.
Ha, I like black wheels, look great with many liveries IMO, especially in tarmac setup cars.
Tommi´s 2017 prototype will look different...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
To be honest, I think the livery is what ruins it the most. The standard white test car looks all right, so if they can just do a white car with something like what msport did for 2014 (some curved lines along it) or something like bouffier does on his cars (but not the french flag obv.) this could be good looking...
...and pleaaaaase ditch the stupid black wheels. White rims plz (or i dunno... bright yellow, baby blue, pink... any color but black)!
The wheels look minuscle, I don't mind the livery though. But will we ever see this in action (other than tests)? The whole TMG/TMR thing still confuses me.
I hope it goes better than it looks...... (Just doesn't have the WOW!! factor)
It is not built with 2017 regs.
Does anyone know what Makkinen is doing at the moment?
VW already tested 4 times and I remember him saying at mid August everything was ready or something similar. We are in November...
They are building the new car and it should be ready for testing in March 2016, interview with him in todays Vauhdin Maailma magazine. Still no final decision in where the actual factory will be when everything is up and running. They are building the prototypes in his current location in Puuppola where they made the Subarus but it will be too small if/when they start "mass" producing.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
Makkinen will expand it's current facilities. It's the plan B starting to work.
The new factory will not start construction before spring, because it's not even decided where will it be.
I saw a twitter about Yaris R5 and GT86 R3 and WRC. GT86 WRC could be good :)
Who's twitter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
WRC project back?
The Toyota comeback is still in random orbits. After Tommi Makinen has usurped the leadership per se and locates the project in Finland, the Toyota Motorsport GmbH in Cologne seems to have set the last WRC activity.
In twelve months, Toyota plans to present the car to the FIA for homologation, by which he will celebrate in January 2017, the comeback in the World Rally Championship. Much is at stake, finally, the Japanese were for many years as the successful brand in the top league before they started with the tragedy in the Formula-1.
A similar debacle threatens now repeat in the World Rally Championship, for the way how the new WRC project is implemented, solves in the scene largely shake of the head from.
Began the Toyota Motorsport GmbH (TMG) about two years ago - initially on their own - with the development of World Rally Cars, counted as many observers with an ingenious strategy and a long-term planning of the world leader. But the appointment of Tommi Makinen as the new team manager took care of the first doubts about the implementation, because the task is enormous and more than a little motorsport forged had the former world champion is not yet passed. But none other than Toyota President Toyoda Aki heaved his Finnish rally pal personally in the office and apparently gave him not only a big budget, but also appropriate action freedoms.
Time is pressing and Mäkinen would immediately give full throttle, but unlike announced the project seems to falter. Nothing was out of the announced end of September strategy and structure plans. On the contrary. Up to the half-hearted statement to deploy the WRC project in his hometown Jyväskylä, and to build a new corporate headquarters, little has happened.
TMG will provide no engine
Worse, now seems to fail and the unloved both sides of cooperation between TMR (Tommi Mäkinen Racing) and TMG. The cold Asked Cologne troops should have no interest in, especially to serve only as a supplier of key components above the engine. In Finland, there are rumors that at TMG all activities, this revolve around the World Rally Car, will never end and even parts of the involved in the WRC TMG workforce be exempted. Mäkinen is then immediately at the French engine specialist Pipo have knocked, but its partner Hyundai raised takes the index finger and pointed to the contractually agreed exclusivity in the WRC-motor development. At the latest in March to the testwork with the Yaris WRC, Made in Finland start '. Which engine pushes the car is currently in the stars.
By the way: With TMG the first prototype should have been completed in nearly purebred 2017er trim. Thus one would have been the first team ever that the latest generation of WRC-can test. This advantage you have gambled through the mess of the past few weeks.
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nach...ojekt-zurueck/
What a pathetic shambles...
http://www.carthrottle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/gLHfVSrZ.jpg
Would look good!
Where is my 'not surprised' face......???