The West curse strikes again?Quote:
Originally Posted by tha_jackal
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The West curse strikes again?Quote:
Originally Posted by tha_jackal
Quote:
Originally Posted by tha_jackal
Hannspree has also cut down its Ten Kate sponsorship to 2 superbikes and 2 Supersports
Checa and Rea will have the Hannspree livery while Kiyo will have an HRC livery with HRC logos (but all 3 bikes will be the same)
Anthony (I just want to ride the bike) West - 3rd at Season Opener in Phillip Island.
"I am really happy with third position today. I started from 12th on the grid and got a pretty good start but got held up by Gary McCoy, which pushed me back to 14th. I knew I had to fight my way up to the front pack. The bike was working really well and on lap 19 I took the lead. I had a good battle with the Ten Kate Hondas which were slightly faster on the straight. I am very happy how things turned out today. I would like to thank the team for putting in such a great effort this weekend." - Dunno who had the biggest smile at Race end - Ant or Bracksy.
Being fortunate enough to witness the race first hand I am happy to report that Ant's ride was clearly the ride of the meeting. Coming from 14th at the end of lap 1 and he was up to 3rd by lap 8 whilst the others were conserving tyres. Ant was eatin' them in sector 4 and finished with the fastest time for that sector but was down on speed down the shute if he was not able to slipstream someone. ( having said that, Corser was unbelievable and putting on a great show for us punters around Siberia in race 2 - no traction and he had it seriously sideways and smokin' from about lap 3 )
I had a long chat with Ant on the Thursday before the race and he seems pretty happy with his new management group after canning the previous guy. There has already been a heap of reports about Ant's connection with Stiggy and that relationship may well bear fruit in 2009. The biggest thing he has to deal with is simply the major step down from a MotoGP bike. One thing for sure though is that his ego is not getting in the road. He also has a new leathers supplier after his previous supplier advised him at the beginning of the end of 2008 test that they would not be able to continue supporting him.
"Australian racer, Anthony West, signs agreement with MTECH and will get to wear the number 13 NKP leather suit; and Arzignano (firm in Vicenza, Italy - subsidiary of Gruppo Mastrotto) accessories for the entire Supersport 2009 season."
Ant will have Bernie Hatton with him for 6 or 7 rounds. Bernie was Ant's first race coach and has been involved with a truckload of Aussie top road racers over the years. I reckon this is a real step forward and have always found it hard to believe more riders do not travel with a "Riding Coach".
After speaking with a few others close to Ant over the weekend "rumour" has it that Yamaha wanted him for their super sport team but was rejected by his previous management without consulting Ant. Apparently Ant was furious when the Yamaha guys spoke to him at the 2008 test.
I for one am looking forward to the Go Cart tracks in Europe where top speed is not as big a deal as it is at THE ISLAND,
To be able to mix it in round 1 with the Ten Kate boys is very promising indeed. Looking forward to Losail this Saturday!
It would be awesome if Ant could be somehow involved with the Suzuka 8 Hour race with Honda for 09.. Like Josh Brookes was last year.. Then he could look to jump up to WSBK next year (2010) aboard a Honda, weather that's sticking with Stiggy or getting a 'promotion' with Ten Kate..Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah Jack
If that rumour about the Yamaha team is true, it's well and truly a disgrace.. A team of West and Crutchlow would be an amazing sight to see, i don't think Foret is going to be up to it this year..
Hopefully Stiggy can work on their top-end, if they can sort it out, there is no reason Ant shoudn't be the main man for the title this year..
Fingers crossed, just so good to see him happy again and racing for podiums, rather than trying to avoid being lapped :D
Jake , I was being polite calling it a rumour.......
nudge nudge wink wink say no more
the guy was / is an a#@%hole just took Ant a while to realise it.
Yea Phantom but do you remember the freight train finish at the Island last year in the 600's.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phantom
To be fair to Stiggy though they are a little better than a "privateer" team now. Haslam's results also were nothing short of sensational and he was my 2nd pick for rider of the meet.
oh..great to see a driver having such a loyal fanbase ;)
so are stiggy going to get a 09 CBR this year? mr. laverty's 09 bike is soooo fast down the straights and westy really needs a horsepower boost..
Personally i can't wait till we get to Europe, thats when the underpowered Westy will begin to shine. He's always the quickest through the twisty parts, but loses out on top speed, as was graphically evident at Round 1, Phillip Island, and again at Losail. I wonder what odds i can get for Valencia, Magny Cours, Assen....etc etc etc.... There's little doubt who'd be winning every race if they were all running on equal machinery, we saw what Westy can do on a factory bike when he had those few ride on the then underpowered Yamaha... he absolutely smashed the Ten Kate boys senseless... i believe that was a turning point in Westy's career... i wonder where he'd be if he had stayed with factory Yamaha and won them a championship - rather than jumping on the first seat offered to him.... that piece of crap Kwakka was never going to do him any favours :-(
errr, i just repeated a lot of stuff thats already been said... sorry bout that. I've only just signed up today, and being a huge Ant west fan, searched for his name immediately and found this thread - had to add my 2 bob right away, without even reading previous posts... whoops !
I knew Ant had been having probs with his manager - to the point where he had to get rid of him.... but woah ! any wonder, the guy sounds like a right royal tool !
Anyway, looking forward to further discussions on my favourite rider.
Welcome aboard Barnzii.........Don't worry about repeating repeating information.
It's all hypothetical at this stage of the season but I reckon if they can get a few more km/h out of the Stiggy Honda and West keeps his cool, he will be consistently up at the pointy end and by the silly season will most likely have a few different offers on the table.
Having said that, my best bet is that if he does achieve that level off success, the loyalty issue with Stiggy himself and the $s involved would then be the determining factors as to whether he makes a move.
Anthony West, P2;
"I came here to win this race and am a bit disappointed that I got beaten in the last lap after leading most of the race. But it is definitely a better result then the last race in Qatar where I got beaten by all the others. My mechanics have put a lot of time and work into developing the new engine and the new bikes we got for this weekend and today shows how strong and competitive the bike really is. For the next race we will work on further improving the engine to prepare us even better for the next race. I was so close today and now I just want to win. I like the track in Assen and am eager to take victory there."
great result for Ant at Valencia after the dissapointment of Qatar.. glad he hasn't let it effect him mentally..
kudos to the stiggy boys..
onwards and upwards pal!
Woo hoo Ant!!
On a roll now....
To me (and I have said this before in various places), Supersport is ideal for West and in many a way it is a category in which he has been somewhat dominant.
Overnight was (from memory) his tenth race for 2 wins, 5 podiums and a worst of 9th, altogether not to bad considering that the figures are on two different makes of motorcycle.
For me I am pleased for West as he has talent and ability and is able to show it in SS with minimal pressure as it is not considered a 'premier' class in the same way that WSBK and MotoGP may be.
Garry
There is a bit of talk Westy might be headed home in 2010 to try his hand at Aussie Supers on an ex Factory R1.
this would basically mean international career over for Ant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach24
i hope it's completely untrue. :(
I think this was only obvious for West. He has shown absolutely nothing this year, except from the first couple of races. Laverty and Sofuoglu are also riding a Honda, and doing a much better job. Lascorz on a Kwak is doing better than him! Plus, in many races this year, McCoy riding a damn Triumph finished ahead of West.
What is his excuse this time? Whatever it is, he should have performed better on a 2009 spec Honda. From the way guys hyped him up here, they almost had me believing he was gonna walk the championship.
I think this was West's last chance, who IMO is highly overrated. Dunno if he's gonna stay at Stiggy next year on a Yamaha or not, but I think a number of other hungrier riders would do a much better job.
Yes, it was a disappointing year for West but for me he deserves another chance in a WSS team next year. It should be a shame when he isn't competing in an international championship next year. Other guys were even more disappointing this year and already have a ride next year.
Agreed. Have never understood the hype.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
I'll say he did pretty much as my expectation this time last year (post #735) - I said top 5/6, and he was seventh overall after the Stiggy team ran out of money meaning Foret and Pitt edged him in the end as they scored at Portimao and he wasn't there. That said, Eugene Laverty obviously had an amazing season which put all the other Hondas in the shade.
Westy seemed to go pretty well at the flowing and not-all-top-end tracks like Phillip Island and Brno, and was a bit anonymous at some of the others at times, which reflects in his position overall. It could *possibly* be argued that the Stiggy team overstretched themselves by running four bikes at the start of the year [although I think the problem was more that they got shafted by sponsors, they're clearly a decent group] which maybe meant they weren't quite as tip-top as Josh Brookes had been in 2008 for them, but then again Leon and Ant had podiums so that suggests they weren't far off the fastest things out there.
I'd say he definitely showed well enough to merit a continued international career, although I can see how you guys who fancied him for the title would be disappointed. Cal and Eugene (blowing my patriotic trumpet here) did somewhat re-write the rules on Supersport this year, mind you...
I'll bite.
I think the criticism of West is unfair as it seems obvious given that the team could not field West in the last race that they (the team) was in a dire financial situation which, no doubt would not have appeared overnight. So, to me the chances are that the team was over stretched financially for sometime which would definitely have had an impact on their competitiveness throughout the year and a rider can only be as competitive as the equipment allows.
Yes, it is true that he was on a Honda but to assume that it was as competitive as others in the field is at best naive and at worst, well best left unsaid as again, dollars buys competitiveness and without dollars one cannot buy the services or products required.
So to me, before we 'shoot' West in this case one needs to look at the whole picture which includes the talent of West but is offset by the financial constraints of the team that seemed to have less money each round and ultimately had to forfeit a round.
Now, yes it may seem an excuse but the Stiggy team is not a factory supported outfit, nor do or did they have huge sponsorship dollars and to a degree across both SBK and SS were punching above their weight. Fact is, they punched well and landed a few blows but ultimately they got tired and lost thefight.
As for West, well despite what many seem to feel the guy has talent, plenty of talent, but he does not have an attraction to sponsors nor is he marketable so ultimately he relies on that talent to get him rides. Sadly however as we know, talent opens the door to many things and if that talent comes with some backing the doors hide larger rewards.
West is IMO a large talent, but is raw and un-sophisticated in the ways fo the race world and as such for mine he will not achieve a top ride, but instead will languish in tier 2/3.
Gaz
Perhaps a 'winning' stint back in OZ is the answer. I gotta say, riding an ASBK Spec R1 seems a dud move however.Quote:
Originally Posted by gco0307
I have to agree with Gaz - a great talent, an underdeveloped bike, and a career stalled by his naivity and inability to perform off the bike as well as he performs on it. Which is a shame, but you've got to be the complete package to sit at the top in the modern racing era.
I think he'd be better off going WEC racing, or a European domestic championship, than coming home.
Yep, and even after non-performing for I don't know how long, the hype still remains. Surprising.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by gco0307
Too sure about these things, aren't we? Agreed that Stiggy were going through financial problems, but there is no way of knowing for sure if it was going on for a long time, especially from around early to mid-season, when West dropped off the map. Here, again, we are "assuming."Quote:
Originally Posted by gco0307
This is not the first time in history that a rider has had to deal with underdeveloped machinery and still has to perform under pressure. The truly talented riders shine only in these circumstances. See Aoyama in 250cc. Agreed, different class, different machinery etc. but he is punching way above his weight, lone privateer Honda in the top 6, a field dominated by Aprilias, leading the championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by gco0307
So, this excuse of underdeveloped bike doesn't really stand when he had his hands on a 2009 spec CBR600RR and couldn't perform. It's not that the other Hondas got developed to a point where they were light years ahead. Especially hard to understand when Laverty challenged for the championship on a privateer Honda.
IMO he is still only extremely hyped and overrated. I heard the same things when he came to MotoGP, and before the Supersport season even started. But the truth of the matter is, if he really is as talented as you guys say, he would have a ride on the international scene for next year, sponsor or no sponsor.Quote:
Originally Posted by gco0307
I mean the guy came to Supersport from MotoGP! That's a big step down, and with this much experience (and hype), "Westy" ought to do something special even on an underdeveloped bike. These things may not be possible in car racing, but in motorcycle racing they are. Juan Lascorz is a prime example, riding brilliantly on the Kawasaki.
I still believe, IMO that another more talented, hungrier and more talented rider would have performed better on that bike.
X-eccutioner. Im not even going to bother defending Ant, because you are clearly a WUM.
But for those who want to see Ant do well and believe in his ability, (See 2007 rides aboard R6) you will be happy to know he is getting a chance to test this years R6 at the current Portimao tests, once again with Wilco Zilenbergs team.
I really hope he can make the most of the opportunity.
http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/su...aha-11023.html
http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/360/PA671848.jpg
couple more pics.
http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/360/PA671794.jpg
http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/360/PA671788.jpg
http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/360/PA671781.jpg
http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/360/PA671780.jpg
must feel weirrrd riding with crutchlows number.
Very mature. I enjoy intellectual discussions like these. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by tha_jackal
Heh, I think this is the n'th time I have heard that one. That is really ALL that Ant fans have to say for him, the rides in 2007 in SSP. Again, he didn't perform any miracles. It has been done before many times.Quote:
Originally Posted by tha_jackal
I remember that in 2000, a certain Hitoyasu Izutsu, wildcard rider, on a Kawasaki won both races at Sugo beating the likes of Bayliss, Corser, Edwards and Haga, the big factory boys. Yeah, Japanese rider, Japanese machine on a Japanese track from their domestic championship etc., but this was in SBK, against the regular riders with full factory support, an even harder feat to achieve.
The following year in 2001, Makoto Tamada as a wildcard did the double, albeit on a Honda, but still remarkable (Bayliss didn't even qualify in the top 16). In the same year, Ben Bostrom won 6 races (5 of them straight) out of nowhere, yeah, he had a factory Ducati, the best bike during that time, which also enabled Bayliss to win all his championships, but still what he achieved was pretty special.
So, where are all these guys now? Were they special, flukes, or just like any other rider, they need a competitive bike to perform? So, then how in blue heaven is Anthony West more talented and special than any these guys, if he still, being the demi-God that he is on this forum, in the end needs a top bike to perform? Face it, he’s just an average joe who somehow has a tremendous amount of hype behind him.
To be honest, as a racing fan, I don’t see anything special, and if I was a team boss, I would want a rider who is consistently fast in all conditions, dry or wet, not one who just wins when it’s raining, and prays for rain every time they interview him on the grid. :rolleyes:
That’s my two cents, and I guess that’s it, because it seems to offend people around here gravely for some strange reason if someone doesn’t understand the hype surrounding this overrated rider. Well, I won’t stand in the way of this hero worshipping. Carry on please. Ciao. :)
Ok, X -ecutioner,
West needs a top bike to perform? The same could be said of anyone - take your pick of the current crop (yep, even the Doctor... even he couldn't make the Kawasaki go fast). Your argument is specious at best.
That I took time to point this out dismays me the most of all.
Comparing an absolute nobody in GP racing to a 9 time world champion, and quite possibly the greatest motorcycle racer in history. This is priceless! :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles
I think most, even the non-Rossi fans will agree that what Rossi did with the 2004 Yamaha M1 (which was shyte btw) is what is called TRUE talent. "Westy" on the same bike would have finished 20th on his best day.
I really hope he gets Crutchlow's seat on the Yamaha R6 next year. I would like to see how he performs on that bike next year, whether he can win the championship or not, if he has a ride that is.
You seem to have missed my point - stating that West seems to only be able to perform to race winning standard on a top competitive bike is a truism. One that could be said of any rider.
As for comparing West to Rossi well, I didn't actually. Maybe invoking the kawkasaki as an example was confusing for you, but the point still stands - even the greatest rider in history couldn't make it a race winning bike.
If you define fast as significantly faster than West could go in a Kawasaki, then yes, Valentino would make it go fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles
Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
Yep, you are right. Maybe I should have said "race winner" :)
Stoner nearly won a race in 2006 in a privateer bike, in his debut year. It was not the best bike on the grid, at all. Wests performances in MotoGP weren't of a high standard, and by his supersport results, neither were they.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles
One disclaimer: IMO West has talent to burn, but the flipside is that he is a bit of a bogan and doesn't do himself any favours, presentation wise.
However, the privateer Honda is a far better ride than any iteration of the factory Kawsakis. It is a little like the factory Suzuki in that way, except even more disapointing - a company with the resources of Kawasaki Heavy Industries should be able to build a blinder of a race bike. But it's a bit of a pig - and anyone with a choice stays well clear of it, and if they dont have a choice (Melandri, Hopkins), they get away asap. Career in tatters...
Yes? And that's what I said in my previous post. If just like any other average rider, he needs almost the best bike on the grid to perform, then I fail to understand what special talent does he possess?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles
People like Rossi and Stoner are a cut above the rest in this department, in that they have shone in less than perfect machinery. Rossi on the 2004 M1, and Stoner on the 2006 LCR Honda. Anyway, it's not even a comparison.
We have no way of knowing that unless Rossi rides a Kwak. I can bet that he would do a much better job than what West could ever manage.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles
Well, Rossi and Burgess did turn that shyte Yamaha M1 into a race winning and a championship winning machine. Given the right attention, a lot of hard work and the right funding, I am pretty sure that Kawasaki could have been world champions with Rossi.
Even if he does have a lot of talent, if you want to be the best at what you do you need to harness it. He may be a good person but he does not strike me as someone who is intelligent/clever enough to understand how to harness his riding talent and take action on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles
And in this regard, I think there are many others out there riding motorbikes who are like him. They might have less or more talent but at the end of it, he really has failed to impress.
Which is why I don't understand the hype.
Agreed 100%. There are a lot of extremely talented motorsport riders/drivers, some which are naturally talented, and some which work their butts off to become as good, if not better than the talented ones. Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa are good examples of this in F1.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
While once-in-a-lifetime legends like Valentino are not only extremely naturally talented, but also very hard working, and of course this excellent combination has gotten him 9 world championships.
It seems West has some talent, but that's it. Instead of working hard to develop it, he is either laid back, or spends his time whining and moaning about his equipment, or praying for rain, from what I have seen. Hardly champion material.
In the context of WSS 2009, he was the equal of former champions Foret and Pitt - both of whom were with better-regarded teams - so it's hardly been a disgrace by any means. There's also a comment above on Westy fading after the early rounds - not really true at all as he was second at Brno and fourth at Magny-Cours which was the second-last round of the season (and indeed, his last).
(what on earth am I doing defending him after all this time - this is bizarre! :p )
I think he has a decent amount to offer one of the top WSS teams - indeed like the Yamaha squad who are looking for at least one rider and you've gotta imagine Fabien Foret is edging closer to retirement after being pummelled by Cal this year. Eugene, Kenan and Juan Lascorz will likely be the 2010 favourites along with whoever gets the Yamaha seats and the other Ten Kate one, so he's got a chance.