Max Mosley opens a can of worms.

Further allegations are likely to emerge in the coming weeks. In particular the only team with a driver who is of mixed race, is fined massively last year for there conduct in receiving information illegally. It is a tenuous link, but it is also the sort of story these news papers will sieze on.

The uncovering of more of Max Moselys past and his right wing attitudes and the fact he tried to stand as a pollitician for his farthers party is further information that Max could do with out being made public. Now that many of the countries involved with F1 here of these facts, his standing is going to be even less. Further more it was not so much the N**i connotations that upset various royal families it was the simple fact he was 1) paying proffesional ladies for their services, 2) the fact he was behaving dishonourably towards his family.

In many countries family, dignity and so on play a larger part in their lives than those of us in the UK, generally hold. Some may think it isn't so bad, many think it is appalling. Not only is Max dragging down the FIA, but he is slowly destroying his own reputation. He is clearly ill informed as to the publics opinion of him. The news coverage is hugely damaging for him. He's not a rock star, he's and old power crazed man who is loosing grip of reallity. If he wants to sue me, over it bring it on....!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST

In many countries family, dignity and so on play a larger part in their lives than those of us in the UK, generally hold. Some may think it isn't so bad, many think it is appalling.

---

Now, which country was it that that 30 year old woman has been nicked for sh*****g on a beach being out of wedlock (despite once being warned by the police)......?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

Again, I ask the question, if what Max has been doing is so harmless, why does he feel the need to conceal it?

---

Because it isn't anyones business, except his own?

It's a simple right to privacy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

There is no impact on F1, or any other motorsport...

---

So headlines like "Bizarre sex life of F1 boss Max Mosley revealed to court" has no impact on F1?

A GP organiser asking that Max does not attend the Bahrain GP.
Toyota, Honda, Mercedes & BMW criticise the FIA President and ask him to consider his position.
Germany's national motoring body request that that FIA President "reconsider his position".
Dutch Federation want Max the FIA President to resign.
American Automobile Association want the FIA President to quit.
Motorsport New Zealand, Canadian Automobile Association, Motorsport South Africa want the FIA President to quit.
Porsche say scandal makes F1 unattractive.
Past (Ickx, Lauda, Hill) and present drivers (Webber) say the FIA President should either quit or reconsider his position.
Israel withdraws invite to the FIA President to discuss motorsport in the region.
The FIA President unable to attend offical FIA functions at Monaco GP.
F1 engine manufacturers skip meeting with FIA President at Monaco.
19 automobile clubs ask the FIA President to resign.
Ecclestone calls for FIA President to resign.
Concerns of split within the FIA and F1 after the FIA President wins EGM vote.

No impact on F1 :confused: :crazy:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

So headlines like "Bizarre sex life of F1 boss Max Mosley revealed to court" has no impact on F1?

A GP organiser asking that Max does not attend the Bahrain GP.
Toyota, Honda, Mercedes & BMW criticise the FIA President and ask him to consider his position.
Germany's national motoring body request that that FIA President "reconsider his position".
Dutch Federation want Max the FIA President to resign.
American Automobile Association want the FIA President to quit.
Motorsport New Zealand, Canadian Automobile Association, Motorsport South Africa want the FIA President to quit.
Porsche say scandal makes F1 unattractive.
Past (Ickx, Lauda, Hill) and present drivers (Webber) say the FIA President should either quit or reconsider his position.
Israel withdraws invite to the FIA President to discuss motorsport in the region.
The FIA President unable to attend offical FIA functions at Monaco GP.
F1 engine manufacturers skip meeting with FIA President at Monaco.
19 automobile clubs ask the FIA President to resign.
Ecclestone calls for FIA President to resign.
Concerns of split within the FIA and F1 after the FIA President wins EGM vote.

No impact on F1 :confused: :crazy:

---

That doesn't count if you have your head in the sand.

You should know that facts have no influence over ioans opinions :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Because it isn't anyones business, except his own?

It's a simple right to privacy.

---

OK, so why the use of pseudonyms. Not openly volunteering something is different to concealing it, isn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

Not openly volunteering something is different to concealing it, isn't it?

---

Correct. So what?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Correct. So what?

---

Why use a pseudonym. If it is all above board, that surely would not be necessary.

Perhaps he felt, his actions would not befit those of a man in his position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

So headlines like "Bizarre sex life of F1 boss Max Mosley revealed to court" has no impact on F1?

A GP organiser asking that Max does not attend the Bahrain GP.
Toyota, Honda, Mercedes & BMW criticise the FIA President and ask him to consider his position.
Germany's national motoring body request that that FIA President "reconsider his position".
Dutch Federation want Max the FIA President to resign.
American Automobile Association want the FIA President to quit.
Motorsport New Zealand, Canadian Automobile Association, Motorsport South Africa want the FIA President to quit.
Porsche say scandal makes F1 unattractive.
Past (Ickx, Lauda, Hill) and present drivers (Webber) say the FIA President should either quit or reconsider his position.
Israel withdraws invite to the FIA President to discuss motorsport in the region.
The FIA President unable to attend offical FIA functions at Monaco GP.
F1 engine manufacturers skip meeting with FIA President at Monaco.
19 automobile clubs ask the FIA President to resign.
Ecclestone calls for FIA President to resign.
Concerns of split within the FIA and F1 after the FIA President wins EGM vote.

No impact on F1 :confused: :crazy:

---

Not surprisingly, you didn't mention these....

Donington owners coughing up £100million to host British GP,
American looking at starting new F1 team.
Talk of US GP returning to Indy.
Middle Eastern countries wanting to host GP's.
No major manufacturers leaving F1.
More FIA members vote for Mosley to stay than to go.
Attendance & viewing figures, vital for sponsors, totally unaffected.

Compared to your list, most of which are non-issues outside the inner-workings of the FIA, that shows that interest in Formula One has not been affected by Mosley's personal-life activities.

In fact, I'd like to see your reasons why, if Mosley is such a dead duck, any of these have happened?

According to your stance, Mosley is damaging the sport.

The facts say otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

Not surprisingly, you didn't mention these....

---

I agree it's not surprising because I was directly responding to ioan's claim that "there is no impact on F1, or any other motorsport..." A claim that is demonstrably not true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

Compared to your list, most of which are non-issues outside the inner-workings of the FIA, that shows that interest in Formula One has not been affected by Mosley's personal-life activities.

---

The majority of the examples I gave relate directly to the inner workings of the FIA (i.e. the reaction of member clubs) or the effect on the FIA President's ability to do his job as normal (withdrawn invitations, cancelled meeting).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

In fact, I'd like to see your reasons why, if Mosley is such a dead duck, any of these have happened?

---

Most haven't (!!) and if they do are more likely to be down to Bernie's persuasive powers than who is (or isn't) FIA President. The one example you give that relates to the FIA was hardly a surprise given that the EGM was called by the FIA President and run on his terms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

Not surprisingly, you didn't mention these....

Donington owners coughing up £100million to host British GP,
American looking at starting new F1 team.
Talk of US GP returning to Indy.
Middle Eastern countries wanting to host GP's.
No major manufacturers leaving F1.
More FIA members vote for Mosley to stay than to go.
Attendance & viewing figures, vital for sponsors, totally unaffected.

Compared to your list, most of which are non-issues outside the inner-workings of the FIA, that shows that interest in Formula One has not been affected by Mosley's personal-life activities.

In fact, I'd like to see your reasons why, if Mosley is such a dead duck, any of these have happened?

According to your stance, Mosley is damaging the sport.

The facts say otherwise.

---

Nobody ever claimed that this scandle has destroyed F1. Merely, that it has had a negative impact with the consequenses Arrows pointed out.

Do you disagree that Arrow's points are negative or do you disagree that they happened?

If not, you have to conceed that Max's actions and his continued role as head of the FIA has had a negative impact on F1 which is damaging to the sport.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I agree it's not surprising because I was directly responding to ioan's claim that "there is no impact on F1, or any other motorsport..." A claim that is demonstrably not true.

---

Then please demonstrate how motorsport has been affected.

If trying to claim that not being invited to a meeting or to attend a Grand Prix is of any significance to the overall health of Formula One is the best you can come up with, then it is laughable.

Formula One has been utterly unaffected. Nobody has left due to Mosley's personal life being exposed, no sponsors have left and no viewing figures have dropped.

Those are the FACTS! They are UNDENIABLE!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

Do you disagree that Arrow's points are negative or do you disagree that they happened?

If not, you have to conceed that Max's actions and his continued role as head of the FIA has had a negative impact on F1 which is damaging to the sport.

---

And where is the damage?

E, a dominatrix who secretly filmed the sadomasochistic session at a Chelsea flat in March, was due to give evidence together with her husband.

Mr Warby told Mr Justice Eady at London's High Court: "This morning, at about ten to eight, I received information which has later been elaborated on which leads those instructing me and my clients to take the view that her emotional and mental state is such that it would not be fair or reasonable to call her to give evidence."
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news..._to_appear.php

The only other reasons I can think of that she didn't show up is that she didn't want to perjure herself.
Or the defense never really planed on calling her at all. They just throw out a heap of accusations
they say she can corroborate, and then she takes a powder! Interesting psychological warfare!
However I don’t think this judge will appreciate it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I agree it's not surprising because I was directly responding to ioan's claim that "there is no impact on F1, or any other motorsport..." A claim that is demonstrably not true.

The majority of the examples I gave relate directly to the inner workings of the FIA (i.e. the reaction of member clubs) or the effect on the FIA President's ability to do his job as normal (withdrawn invitations, cancelled meeting).

Most haven't (!!) and if they do are more likely to be down to Bernie's persuasive powers than who is (or isn't) FIA President. The one example you give that relates to the FIA was hardly a surprise given that the EGM was called by the FIA President and run on his terms.

---

You have a fertile imagination!

You are very subjective in your argument!

I believe, as Tamb' pointed out,

you suffer from "selective amnesia"! :p :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

If trying to claim that not being invited to a meeting or to attend a Grand Prix is of any significance to the overall health of Formula One is the best you can come up with, then it is laughable.

---

As FIA President Max Mosley personally represents the FIA in its entirety worldwide. It is therefore not laughable that he has been snubbed by royalty, politicians and multinational corporations all of whom have a considerable stake in F1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

Nobody has left...

---

Quote:

---

"With regret and incomprehension, the ADAC has learned from the decision by the General Assembly of the FIA in Paris to confirm Max Mosley in his function as president of the FIA," the ADAC said in a statement.
"For Europe's largest motoring club, this is a reason to put down all its functions and the involvement in the global organisation of motoring clubs with immediate effect and to step down from the globally active FIA working groups.
"The ADAC will stick to this attitude as long as Max Mosley will be on duty as president of the FIA.

---

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67958

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SGWilko

1. I was responding to my own post - not yours (see post #700)
2. My PM to you titled I see the confusion was sent subsequent to my post questioning why I should apologise.
3. Shame you are apparently one of the insecure few who like to threaten the report function - be a man.
My PM to Baggy:

Honestly mate, that was not a pop at you guvn'or. I was innocently quoting a character of Steve Coogan (Alan Partridge, Saxondale etc).

The character is Paul Calf, who, after he says 'are you a student', says Bag o' e.

I will apologise that you took it the wrong way, but not for posting it, because it was not about your Forum name or you.

Subject closed PM Ends.

Someone needs to lighten up.

Don't dare make out I am having a pop at you. I don't do that.

There, hope that sets the record straight.

---

There . You see how this made you feel ?
I told you that you didn't like your dirty laundry out , and you responded with outing more of it yourself .
That's not very unlike what Max did .

For Max , no response would have had him seen as accepting the characterization , in the eyes of the world , that he is all the things that are brought to mind when the word Nazi is uttered .
Unsurprisingly , he found that untenable .

For you , the thought that I would liken this to Max's situation , saying you didn't want the laundry on the line , prompted a response that countered the accusation you were a name-caller .
Again , unsurprising .

It's what humans do .


Shame you also feel it necessary to call me insecure and insinuate I am not a man in your #3 .
I wonder how the mods feel about the report post button carrying such stigma .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tazio

The only other reasons I can think of that she didn't show up is that she didn't want to perjure herself.
Or the defense never really planed on calling her at all. They just throw out a heap of accusations
they say she can corroborate, and then she takes a powder! Interesting psychological warfare!
However I don’t think this judge will appreciate it.

---

If you're going to wildly speculate about "E"'s reasons for not showing up today, one could equally wonder whether she'd been bribed or threatened. I can think of plenty more reasons why she didn't show up! :dozey:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tazio

You have a fertile imagination!

You are very subjective in your argument!

I believe, as Tamb' pointed out,

you suffer from "selective amnesia"! :p :

---

I really fail to see what point some people here are trying to make. It seems that people here are argueing with Arrows for the sake of it rather than whether Maxgate has had a negative impact on F1. Perhaps there is more of a personal agenda here than a case for arguement?

If you trully believe that Maxgate hasn't damaged F1 then so be it. No amount of posting facts to the contrary will ever sway you but it seems silly to respond to a resoned arguement with this sort of post.

I'm sure that some people here will argue the poll results on this thread demonstrate that there is widespread concensus that Max should stay.

Other European car manufacturers are considering joining the action on the Formula One grid, according to BMW Sauber boss Mario Theissen.

The German said he understands Audi, Volkswagen and Porsche are interested in the sport's current direction; like BMW's trajectory of success with a reasonable budget, and road-relevant new technologies like KERS.

Theissen also said some Asian manufacturers could follow suit.


"Already my colleagues in the road car research and development department are knocking on our door," Theissen added.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...06121528.shtml

It appears, according to the good doctor, that German makers are more
interested in F1 now than before the regrettable invasion into Max's life!
Apparently KERS trumps canes! :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

As FIA President Max Mosley personally represents the FIA in its entirety worldwide. It is therefore not laughable that he has been snubbed by royalty, politicians and multinational corporations all of whom have a considerable stake in F1.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67958

---

These would be the same Royalty, Politicians & Multinational corporations who have not announced they will not be continuing to host and sponsor motorsport events? Yes, they are.

Unless you can show proof of a motorsport event being cancelled or of sponsorship being withdrawn, you have no evidence to back up your weak argument.

ADAC, by the way, are responsible for the next Grand Prix are they not? That event is going full steam ahead....which utterly discredits your point that their withdrawal from the FIA has had any effect whatsoever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

If you're going to wildly speculate about "E"'s reasons for not showing up today, one could equally wonder whether she'd been bribed or threatened. I can think of plenty more reasons why she didn't show up! :dozey:

---

A definate possibility. However all the conspiracy theories
that have been laid out on this forum have failed to materialize!
Fact: She took a powder!!

It's probably we won't know the full effects for at least a year. Sponsors are in place, agreements have been signed, it's highly unlikely they'll pull out over Nazigate. What will be interesting is whether any potential future sponsors or manufacturers have been put off by this affair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tazio

Other European car manufacturers are considering joining the action on the Formula One grid, according to BMW Sauber boss Mario Theissen.

The German said he understands Audi, Volkswagen and Porsche are interested in the sport's current direction; like BMW's trajectory of success with a reasonable budget, and road-relevant new technologies like KERS.

Theissen also said some Asian manufacturers could follow suit.


"Already my colleagues in the road car research and development department are knocking on our door," Theissen added.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...06121528.shtml

It appears, according to the good doctor, that German makers are more
interested in F1 now than before the regrettable invasion into Max's life!
Apparently KERS trumps canes! :laugh:

---

I think most people will agree that some recent rule changes have been a step in the right direction. No TC or LC for example has helped produce a better, fairer spectacle. Lets hope this continues to go in the right direction and the FIA don't cock the sport up again.

But that doesn't change the effect of Maxgate though. Are you suggesting that Max's scandle and subsequent behaviour has had no negative impact on the FIA and F1?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

But that doesn't change the effect of Maxgate though. Are you suggesting that Max's scandle and subsequent behaviour has had no negative impact on the FIA and F1?

---

It doesn't appear to....unless you know of an event or deal that isn't going ahead because of it.

Do you?

That is the crux of this argument. Both you & Arrows claim that damage has been done, that F1 has suffered from the justifiably negative headlines generated by Max.

So far, neither of you have given us anything concrete to support your view.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

I really fail to see what point some people here are trying to make. It seems that people here are argueing with Arrows for the sake of it

---

Perhaps you don't appreciate my style?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

rather than whether Maxgate has had a negative impact on F1. Perhaps there is more of a personal agenda here than a case for arguement?

---

But you are an excellent mind reader! :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

I think most people will agree that some recent rule changes have been a step in the right direction. No TC or LC for example has helped produce a better, fairer spectacle. Lets hope this continues to go in the right direction and the FIA don't cock the sport up again.

But that doesn't change the effect of Maxgate though. Are you suggesting that Max's scandle and subsequent behaviour has had no negative impact on the FIA and F1?

---

That question is too subjective for anyone to give an empirical answer.
I think that pitching him out has a degree of possibility that it could damage the sport.
I think the status quo is in the best interest of F1
I see no evidence that I will see noticeable damage unless we have Max's eminent demise!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

These would be the same Royalty, Politicians & Multinational corporations who have not announced they will not be continuing to host and sponsor motorsport events?

---

True, but that does not alter the fact they did not want to associate with an FIA headed by the current President.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

Unless you can show proof of a motorsport event being cancelled or of sponsorship being withdrawn, you have no evidence to back up your weak argument.

---

By that deliberately selective and narrow set of conditions there has, as yet, been no damage done, or any effect felt. It's as if I were to say that unless you can show proof of Max being welcomed to this year's Bahrain GP by Sheikh Salman Bin Hamad Al-Khalifa then you have no evidence to back up your weak argument.

We're going round in circles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

By that deliberately selective and narrow set of conditions there has, as yet, been no damage done, or any effect felt. It's as if I were to say that unless you can show proof of Max being welcomed to this year's Bahrain GP by Sheikh Salman Bin Hamad Al-Khalifa then you have no evidence to back up your weak argument.

---

I'm sorry, but there is no comparison.

Not being invited to attend a Grand Prix is not as important as a Grand Prix being cancelled or a sponsor withdrawing.

Therefore, your argument is immeasurably weaker than mine.

Please feel free to go round in circles and to quote the third best song-writer in a band...but come back when your argument has some less rotational direction.

Actually, make that any direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bagwan

There . You see how this made you feel ?
I told you that you didn't like your dirty laundry out , and you responded with outing more of it yourself .
That's not very unlike what Max did .

For Max , no response would have had him seen as accepting the characterization , in the eyes of the world , that he is all the things that are brought to mind when the word Nazi is uttered .
Unsurprisingly , he found that untenable .

For you , the thought that I would liken this to Max's situation , saying you didn't want the laundry on the line , prompted a response that countered the accusation you were a name-caller .
Again , unsurprising .

It's what humans do .


Shame you also feel it necessary to call me insecure and insinuate I am not a man in your #3 .
I wonder how the mods feel about the report post button carrying such stigma .

---

WTF are you on about?

You made reference to a PM in your post, I merely posted it, so others can get a fair representation of what you referred to.

Where is all the name calling BS coming from. I posted about a PhD student, and made a witty comment about students as made by a S Coogan character.

You've put 3 and 5 together and got 76.2. :down:

NB as a moot point, I alleged (using the word apparently) you were insecure rather stated, as you erroneously wrote.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

I'm sorry, but there is no comparison.

---

There is, but my example just doesn't produce the result that fits your argument. I don't claim that that makes your argument immeasurably weaker than mine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

There is, but my example just doesn't produce the result that fits your argument. I don't claim that that makes your argument immeasurably weaker than mine.

---

That's because you can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

If you're going to wildly speculate about "E"'s reasons for not showing up today, one could equally wonder whether she'd been bribed or threatened. I can think of plenty more reasons why she didn't show up! :dozey:

---

Upon thoughtful consideration I believe that the defense has actually been truthful
in their portrayal of Woman E, in regard to why she didn’t appear in court.
Now she can't face the friends (including "Mike") that she betrayed.
She went down to the crossroads and signed her deal in blood, for a pittance!!
Ol' "leggba" ain't breakin' no deals. She can live on in the knowledge
that for the rest of her life she has Hellhounds on her trail! :eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

So headlines like "Bizarre sex life of F1 boss Max Mosley revealed to court" has no impact on F1?

A GP organiser asking that Max does not attend the Bahrain GP.
Toyota, Honda, Mercedes & BMW criticise the FIA President and ask him to consider his position.
Germany's national motoring body request that that FIA President "reconsider his position".
Dutch Federation want Max the FIA President to resign.
American Automobile Association want the FIA President to quit.
Motorsport New Zealand, Canadian Automobile Association, Motorsport South Africa want the FIA President to quit.
Porsche say scandal makes F1 unattractive.
Past (Ickx, Lauda, Hill) and present drivers (Webber) say the FIA President should either quit or reconsider his position.
Israel withdraws invite to the FIA President to discuss motorsport in the region.
The FIA President unable to attend offical FIA functions at Monaco GP.
F1 engine manufacturers skip meeting with FIA President at Monaco.
19 automobile clubs ask the FIA President to resign.
Ecclestone calls for FIA President to resign.
Concerns of split within the FIA and F1 after the FIA President wins EGM vote.

No impact on F1 :confused: :crazy:

---

Nothing happened, of all those "threats" you are listing, none came to a harmful conclusion to F1. Why because it wasn't anything serious.

However, keep flogging that dead horse! :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

Not surprisingly, you didn't mention these....

Donington owners coughing up £100million to host British GP,
American looking at starting new F1 team.
Talk of US GP returning to Indy.
Middle Eastern countries wanting to host GP's.
No major manufacturers leaving F1.
More FIA members vote for Mosley to stay than to go.
Attendance & viewing figures, vital for sponsors, totally unaffected.

Compared to your list, most of which are non-issues outside the inner-workings of the FIA, that shows that interest in Formula One has not been affected by Mosley's personal-life activities.

In fact, I'd like to see your reasons why, if Mosley is such a dead duck, any of these have happened?

According to your stance, Mosley is damaging the sport.

The facts say otherwise.

---

Exactly! :up:

Cheers! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

There is, but my example just doesn't produce the result that fits your argument. I don't claim that that makes your argument immeasurably weaker than mine.

---

Let it go Arrows, you have no argument whatsoever, no facts to stand on, nothing, only your subjective opinion about Max's person. I can also tell you that it is because he had the guts to rightly hit McLaren and Ron last season. So you have a problem with max for all the wrong reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Let it go Arrows, you have no argument whatsoever, no facts to stand on, nothing, only your subjective opinion about Max's person. I can also tell you that it is because he had the guts to rightly hit McLaren and Ron last season. So you have a problem with max for all the wrong reasons.

---

You forgot to add "in my opinion" as the facts Arrows has posted are referencable and proven.

I suppose your objectivity can be best demonstrated where you quote a post of Arrows where he directly references 14 specific examples that directly relate to the negative impact caused by Maxgate. You dismiss these facts without giving them a reasoned answer and yet when Tamburello quotes 7 examples, you accept them as Gospel.

Lets look at the things you agree with.

Donington owners coughing up £100million to host British GP, - They have been after the British GP for years. This is nothing to do with Max

American looking at starting new F1 team. - I'm looking to win the Lottery. Until it's starts a team, it's not real. Still, nothing directly attributal to Max again

Talk of US GP returning to Indy. - See above

Middle Eastern countries wanting to host GP's. - See above

No major manufacturers leaving F1. - That would be an extreme reaction, would it not? However, a more appropiate response may have been for Major Manufacturers voice their concern and ask Max to resign would it not? Mmmmm

More FIA members vote for Mosley to stay than to go. - Then you must also agree that the members that voted for Max to go represent the vast majority of the worlds larger clubs. When you have the German or American vote having the same clout as the Vatican city or Angola, then this sort of farce is likely to happen.

Attendance & viewing figures, vital for sponsors, totally unaffected. - Link Please.

So, Arrows posts facts that have occured as a result of Maxgate and you dismiss them because they are contrary to your view and yet you agree with points based that have nothing to do with the issue, are based on rumour or are opinion with no base in fact.

If you carry on flogging that dead horse, I'll set the RSPCA on you :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

If you carry on flogging that dead horse

---

peolple will call you Max!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knock-on

So, Arrows posts facts that have occured as a result of Maxgate and you dismiss them because they are contrary to your view and yet you agree with points based that have nothing to do with the issue, are based on rumour or are opinion with no base in fact.

---

They have absolutely everything to do with the issue. There has been no significant or meaningful damage to the sport. The FIA continues to operate. All that has happened is a few press releases and a few withdrawn party invitations.

If that is your idea of damage, then it is a very strange one.

Arrows points are rightly dismissed because they are utterly irrelevant to the claims that 'damage' has been done. Real damage is loss of income, loss of events.

Once again....show us the damage!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Arrows has posted are referencable and proven.

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Proven? He claims that damage has been done to the FIA which makes Mosley's tenure impossible. He has offered no proof to back this up.

Please provide the PROOF that Mosley's position is untenable.