2021 Race 10 - British Grand Prix

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Here's my opinion on that .
Airshifter is one of the most un-biased posters we have here .

You are not .

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Ha, You certainly are not. I would respond strongly to any bias from any poster on here. That is not being biased. But l admit that l take no prisoners in my responses. l challenge you to find any post of mine that is biased.

I was once full of praise for Mercedes for what they have achieved since returning to F1 as l have done for Hamilton for what he has done since recovering from the five years slump at Mclaren. If that is being biased, then l am guilty as charged.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

How dare you actually focus on a way to make solid rules that allow racing and keep things safe. Pick a side, become a fanboi extremist, and shout from the rooftops! :laugh:

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that's unfortunately how many people are.

but once you learn who they are and know who they will unconditionally defend its actually quite amusing to read their posts.

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Yeah, the rules right now just kind of still suck at clarity, and they are leaving the door open for these kinds of things. Racing will be racing, but there has got to be a better way to sort things out and keep it somewhat safe. It's sort of a catch 22 situation.... if the rules are too strict racing suffers. If the rules are too loose, racing suffers.

But I agree the penalty system really doesn't hurt a lot of times. Especially the time based penalties, as they give advantage to guess who????... As usual the top teams. While Merc and RB can pretty much recover from a time penalty, the farther back cars are in the pack the more positions it often costs them.

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the main problem in this case was that hamilton wrecked his front wing and got to repair it for free during red flag. Without that he would have been at the back of the pack or even have to retire. in any care he wouldn't have won and there would have been far les discussion.

all we need to avoid this in the future is a rule that says that anyone who has his car worked on during red flag, has to start the restart from the pits .

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/19/...om-retirement/

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

Ha, You certainly are not. I would respond strongly to any bias from any poster on here. That is not being biased. But l admit that l take no prisoners in my responses. l challenge you to find any post of mine that is biased.

I was once full of praise for Mercedes for what they have achieved since returning to F1 as l have done for Hamilton for what he has done since recovering from the five years slump at Mclaren. If that is being biased, then l am guilty as charged.

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Agreed .
Guilty as charged .

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Originally Posted by denkimi

that's unfortunately how many people are.

but once you learn who they are and know who they will unconditionally defend its actually quite amusing to read their posts.



the main problem in this case was that hamilton wrecked his front wing and got to repair it for free during red flag. Without that he would have been at the back of the pack or even have to retire. in any care he wouldn't have won and there would have been far les discussion.

all we need to avoid this in the future is a rule that says that anyone who has his car worked on during red flag, has to start the restart from the pits .

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/19/...om-retirement/

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The only issue I see with having "worked on" cars restart from the pit lane would be that in some of these incidents there is collateral damage (ie- cars rolling over damaged bodywork) where the driver is completely innocent , caught up in confusion .

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Originally Posted by denkimi

all we need to avoid this in the future is a rule that says that anyone who has his car worked on during red flag, has to start the restart from the pits .

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Every team uses the red flag pitlane park to change tyres, adjust wings and do other fixes. Such a rule as you have suggested would ban all work to be done on the car when they park in the pitlane under red flag conditions. The teams would collectively not like that idea. This would be seen as an adverse change which would be to detriment of the other teams due to a reaction to Hamilton and Mercedes.

Besides, repairing cars under red flag conditions do not always work out. If the time it takes to fix a particular problem cannot be carried out before the end of the Red flag then retirement is assured. This adds to the entertainment, since the engineers are on the clock to get repairs done before the end of the indeterminate duration of the red flag or retire the car.

This has been part of F1 since its inception. Hence there is no reason to change it.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

The only issue I see with having "worked on" cars restart from the pit lane would be that in some of these incidents there is collateral damage (ie- cars rolling over damaged bodywork) where the driver is completely innocent , caught up in confusion .

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that's part of the game, it wil never be completely fair unfortunately.

it's just so that nowadays, because they use safetycars and red flags all the time, you can cause an accident, damage your own car and get away with it. a few years ago this would have messed up lewis'es race just as bad as verstappens. the damage caused is in itself a big punishment and a big reason to stay out of collisions. if you can get away with it for free, there is much less more incentive to avoid it.


people often refer to drivers like schumacher or senna, but they would not have put their opponents in the wall at 300km/h. they were hard racers, but in their time such accidents could get them killed.

Lewis Hamilton 'was to blame' as David Coulthard weighs in on Max Verstappen row
David Coulthard says Lewis Hamilton was to blame for the Max Verstappen British Grand Prix crash.
By Claire Cottingham
PUBLISHED: 14:12, Wed, Jul 21, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:12, Wed, Jul 21, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-a...ish-Grand-Prix


Lewis Hamilton v Max Verstappen: Red Bull 'have data' to lay blame for Silverstone crash at Brit's door
By George Dagless
Published: 21 Jul 2021, 10:48

Red Bull are said to possess data that shows Lewis Hamilton was going faster into Copse on lap one than at any other time of the British Grand Prix on Sunday, potentially suggesting that the Briton was to blame for the incident with Max Verstappen.

Battle lines weren't just drawn on Sunday afternoon just after 3pm at Copse corner, they were carved in stone, and both camps from Toto Wolff and Christian Horner down to fans on social media were quick to pull the trigger in the blame game.

https://www.givemesport.com/1725087-...-at-brits-door


‘Data shows Hamilton wouldn’t have made the corner’
Date published: July 21 2021 - Jon Wilde

Martin Brundle says Red Bull have told him they have data that shows Lewis Hamilton would have run wide at Copse had he not collided with Max Verstappen.

But rather than Hamilton’s car entering the gravel on lap one of the British Grand Prix, it was Verstappen’s Red Bull – which did so at high speed and hit the barrier with a 51G impact, putting the Dutchman out of the race and in hospital for precautionary medical checks.

Red Bull were furious at Hamilton’s manoeuvre as the two World Championship contenders duelled for the lead, the Mercedes driver ‘dummying’ Verstappen by challenging up the inside only for their wheels to make contact as they turned into the corner at 160mph.

After the race was red-flagged, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner was straight on the radio to FIA race director Michael Masi, saying: “Every driver who’s driven at this circuit knows you don’t stick a wheel up the inside at Copse.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin...hamilton-data/


Hamilton using 'every weapon in his arsenal' in Verstappen fight - Wolff
Sam Hall
Wednesday 21 July 2021 04:00

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff has highlighted Lewis Hamilton's recent visits to the simulator as evidence the seven-time F1 champion is using his entire "arsenal of weapons" to defeat Max Verstappen.

With no running on Friday morning, Hamilton travelled the short 10-mile distance from Silverstone to the team's factory at Brackley to use the simulator to steal a march on his rivals.

Hamilton has previously declared his dislike for the simulator but is finding it a useful tool this year in his championship fight with Red Bull's Verstappen.

“The simulator wasn’t his most favourite tool in the past," said Wolff. "We have developed it to a level that is quite good, maybe best in class and he has started to see the benefits of it.

“This fight is so tough that you need to grab every marginal gain and that is why we have progressed together to better understand the car also with the tool of the simulator.”

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67...n-fight-wolff/


"Wound up" Hamilton drove like an "amateur" in Verstappen crash - Horner
Ian Parkes
Monday 19 July 2021 07:00

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner believes Lewis Hamilton was "wound up" after losing F1's maiden sprint race and ended up driving like 'an amateur' in the build-up to the first-lap clash with Max Verstappen in the British Grand Prix.

Horner was left fuming with Hamilton in the wake of an incident that has lit the blue touchpaper to an explosive campaign over the remaining 13 races as the title rivals give no quarter in their bid for the championship.

Horner initially described Hamilton as "desperate' and "dangerous" and is convinced that what unfolded during the sprint led to that state of mind and Verstappen's 51g impact with a tyre barrier at Copse Corner and a subsequent trip to hospital.

Following what he felt was a "strong" day for Verstappen on Saturday with the sprint win, Horner felt that "added to Lewis’ desperation".

"Having lost the sprint, he was pretty wound up and that’s why he made an ill-judged move," said Horner.

"He ran wide into the corner with too much speed. That move was never on.

"Lewis is a world champion with seven titles and that was an amateur’s mistake and a desperate mistake. We were just very lucky someone wasn’t seriously injured."

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67...-crash-horner/

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Originally Posted by denkimi

that's part of the game, it wil never be completely fair unfortunately.

it's just so that nowadays, because they use safetycars and red flags all the time, you can cause an accident, damage your own car and get away with it. a few years ago this would have messed up lewis'es race just as bad as verstappens. the damage caused is in itself a big punishment and a big reason to stay out of collisions. if you can get away with it for free, there is much less more incentive to avoid it.


people often refer to drivers like schumacher or senna, but they would not have put their opponents in the wall at 300km/h. they were hard racers, but in their time such accidents could get them killed.

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Perhaps those involved directly could be made to start from pit lane , and those affected peripherally could ask for special dispensation during the red flag period .
They already have to have an FIA rep there to assure parts changed are the identical .

Some years ago , Max might not have made it out of that one .
In the beginning , he would likely have been thrown from the car , not having a seatbelt at all .

As safety has improved the respect for the other guy has dropped .

Key words for me in this one were something like "I knew Max wouldn't back out of it ".
What does that say ?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Perhaps those involved directly could be made to start from pit lane , and those affected peripherally could ask for special dispensation during the red flag period .
They already have to have an FIA rep there to assure parts changed are the identical .

Some years ago , Max might not have made it out of that one .
In the beginning , he would likely have been thrown from the car , not having a seatbelt at all .

As safety has improved the respect for the other guy has dropped .

Key words for me in this one were something like "I knew Max wouldn't back out of it ".
What does that say ?

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It says Max is an idiot that has to learn that it's more important to win the war than all the battles. I don't expect him to have learned that yet, he's not the brightest spark but a few more of these incidents added to his portfolio, and there will be many, then maybe eventually it'll get through.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

It says Max is an idiot that has to learn that it's more important to win the war than all the battles. I don't expect him to have learned that yet, he's not the brightest spark but a few more of these incidents added to his portfolio, and there will be many, then maybe eventually it'll get through.

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Or , to put it a different way , maybe he'll learn he can't necessarily trust Lewis to back out of an impossible move .

It's fun how there's more than one way to look at it , isn't it ?


Does it say , I knew we would touch ?