Same Sex Marriage

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Originally Posted by Bezza

The problem here is you are suggesting to SGWilko that he is not bringing his kids up properly. And I'm quite sure he is doing a fine job. If I was a father, I'd be quite angry at this underlying suggestion that you are making.

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I'm not angry or irriatetd at Ben's stance. I can tolerate it.

I sympathise with him, but he needs to lighten up a little and be as tolerant himself as he would like everyone else to be.

As to being a good father or not, I do what I think is right - what I have been taught and learned through my own life experiences.

Time will tell when my kids grow up as to my (our - cos 'er indoors counts too!) success.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I'm all for different opinions and the world would be a boring place if we all thought the same. I have the opinion I dislike people who think gay people should be treated differently because of their sexuality. I've been in the company of people who have given me their opinions like that in the past and I have chosen not to associate with them. There is a guy many of my friends are friends with from our Uni days who had very strong views against gay people and I've never been able to socialise with him like some of my friends since. I didn't like his views and was very open with him about mine. We are occasionally in each others company during meet-ups but we know we don't like each other and its an amicable stance if that can be said? The weird thing is we got on so well before this but I think you learn more about people when you discuss such important topics and especially topics that give an insight into their true character. We are all entitled to our own opinions and I'd rather stay true to myself than put up with something for the benefit of others. Opinions will always differ but as Harry says in the film 'In Bruges', "you've got to stick to your principles".... :)

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Look, I seem to be percieved as this evil gay bashing luddite. I am only discussing my views and opinions.

We had a guy at work that was homosexual - he was the office manager - and bloody good at his job. He was a very nice chap, we both got on well and often socialised.

He had a civil partnership, and lived with his husband.

They were both invited and came to my wedding.

Now, why would I want to do that - because I am a bit shallow and want to 'keep up with the Jones'

He was welcomed into our church service.

Just because the church does not allow same sex marriages, does not mean it cannot tolerate homosexuals.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Look, I seem to be percieved as this evil gay bashing luddite. I am only discussing my views and opinions.

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Who by? Not me, and I welcome the views of you and Bezza on this thread. There is no right or wrong here, just a sharing of opinions.

I do struggle with the notion of accepting things just because they have always been that way. If we blindly accept the views of our ancestors without challenging them, then we will never progress. Homosexuality would still be illegal, Witches would be burned and we would be whipping slave girls as punishment for being raped.

Lets face it, if we replaced the word Homesexual for Black in this thread, who would defend the Church is they said Couples cannot get married because they are Black.

About adoption, I really do understand your fears but again, if we deprive a Child of a placement in a Loving and stable home environment just because of the fear of Bully's, just who are we hurting. Aren't we punishing the innocent because of the actions of Bullys?

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Originally Posted by henners88

I'm all for different opinions and the world would be a boring place if we all thought the same. I have the opinion I dislike people who think gay people should be treated differently because of their sexuality. I've been in the company of people who have given me their opinions like that in the past and I have chosen not to associate with them. There is a guy many of my friends are friends with from our Uni days who had very strong views against gay people and I've never been able to socialise with him like some of my friends since. I didn't like his views and was very open with him about mine. We are occasionally in each others company during meet-ups but we know we don't like each other and its an amicable stance if that can be said? The weird thing is we got on so well before this but I think you learn more about people when you discuss such important topics and especially topics that give an insight into their true character. We are all entitled to our own opinions and I'd rather stay true to myself than put up with something for the benefit of others. Opinions will always differ but as Harry says in the film 'In Bruges', "you've got to stick to your principles".... :)

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I couldn't agree more. Why should I respect opinions with which I vehemently disagree? I may respect the right of someone to have an opinion, but that doesn't mean I should be respectful towards it.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Who by? Not me, and I welcome the views of you and Bezza on this thread. There is no right or wrong here, just a sharing of opinions.

I do struggle with the notion of accepting things just because they have always been that way. If we blindly accept the views of our ancestors without challenging them, then we will never progress. Homosexuality would still be illegal, Witches would be burned and we would be whipping slave girls as punishment for being raped.

Lets face it, if we replaced the word Homesexual for Black in this thread, who would defend the Church is they said Couples cannot get married because they are Black.

About adoption, I really do understand your fears but again, if we deprive a Child of a placement in a Loving and stable home environment just because of the fear of Bully's, just who are we hurting. Aren't we punishing the innocent because of the actions of Bullys?

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And underlying all of this is the same important point: that law should always be made on the basis of practical effect, and in this case the ban on gay marriage has none.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Look, I seem to be percieved as this evil gay bashing luddite. I am only discussing my views and opinions.

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Yes, and it's those views and opinions that portray you as such.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

I'm not angry or irriatetd at Ben's stance. I can tolerate it.

I sympathise with him, but he needs to lighten up a little and be as tolerant himself as he would like everyone else to be.

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There is no comparison whatsoever between my intolerance of backward views on homosexuality and the fact that others are intolerant of homosexuals. You, and others, are making judgements on people based entirely on what their sexuality happens to be. I am reacting to those opinions based on what has actually been said, not some prejudice I might have. See the significant difference?

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Originally Posted by Bezza

I agree with SGWilko, and as it happens agree with him on Same-Sex Adoption as well. I think Straight couples should be given preference. You can call that bigoted if you want, BDunnell, but in reality it isn't - its a free-will opinion of mine - and it is not like I'm enforcing that opinion as fact.

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More than that, it's not even as if you're 'enforcing' that opinion with any facts to back it up, or indeed any basis stronger than 'it's what I reckon'.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

More than that, it's not even as if you're 'enforcing' that opinion with any facts to back it up, or indeed any basis stronger than 'it's what I reckon'.

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I believe a child should grow up with a mother and a father, whether that is bloodlined, adopted, fostered, whatever - they need that maternal figure in their life. That is absolutely impossible if the child has two "fathers". Therefore, whilst I wouldn't preclude same-sex adoption entirely - I would put the heterosexual couples in the adoption queue first, as this gives the child the greater chance in life. I know you don't like the word "normal" but a normal life is indeed, growing up with a mother and a father, and taking the advantages of each into your learning of life. With two fathers, you simply cannot have the same effect.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Of course they are decent people. There are plenty of scumbag heterosexual couples that should never be allowed children, but that's that life thing again.

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One thing I hate to hear is: That's life!
Life is not perfect, so what about trying to make it better instead of shoving 'That's life!' in the face of all those who dare to question things which are plain wrong?