Government is evil...

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Good Lord man, lawyer would chew you up for break-fast and crap you out by lunch time.

Whether you like the laws or not, the WRITTEN laws have the backing of the legal system of the land, period.

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Where the heck did I ever say that if you dis-obeyed the law that you weren't a criminal? You are so far off on a tangent now trying to win your argument that it's getting hard to follow you.

Here's the point. There are rights that are Universal (whether they be from God, Nature, or whatever you like), they are the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happyness (or Property). Any law that violates those basic rights is unjust, wrong, and immoral. Some violations require one to resist forcefully, others not so much. But if I break a law that is trying to strip me of my one of these basic rights, I'm pretty sure I'll be right with God.

Your continued insistance that somehow being written in law makes something right, just, and moral is an argument that I'm pretty sure would be reflected by slaveholders, segregationists, and monsters throughout history.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Oh yes, I obey laws by my standards.

I do not find the Ten Commandments to be optional, but there are a lot of laws, that to me, are bs and treated as such.

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Then why are you insisting that rights only come from the law? This makes NO sence to me. How do you judge if a law is BS or not? And what gives you that right?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Here's the point. There are rights that are Universal .

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Prove it!

First it was God given-- you have no proof for that, so I assume now they come from Never Land?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Then why are you insisting that rights only come from the law? This makes NO sence to me. How do you judge if a law is BS or not? And what gives you that right?

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Rights only come from written documents, not laws.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Rights only come from written documents, not laws.

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http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...ranscript.html
Amendment 9
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

What rights could be denied, disparaged or retained by the people if as you suggest they didn't already exist before the law was enacted?

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Bill of Rights Transcript Text
Amendment 9
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

What rights could be denied, disparaged or retained by the people if as you suggest they didn't already exist before the law was enacted?

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Probably English law.

yes

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

This is what I don't understand. You say that your God says you shouldn't Murder yet as a Nation you defend the taking of life at the drop of a hat whether it's in Iraq, Afghanistan, Death Row or shooting some punk kid because he 'might' have mugged you.

Or are your Gods laws only sacrosanct when it's convenient?

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yes. but only when i be doing the dude

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Originally Posted by chuck34

**these are not actually in the Constitution, but I would say they heavily influenced our founding and our government.

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There you go.

Your use of the word influenced indicates that you understand that the bible is the basis of your rights as per the constitution but that they are not taken literally from the bible.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Now days what part of life is the government not involved in? :D

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How about your dealings with friends? family? Unless you commit a crime against them the government doesn't get involved. Next time you have an argument with your wife try defining it in terms of your constitutional rights and see how far you get...

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Again, if there are no absolute rights, if they are all based on what a government tells you you have the right to do, then the government can very easily take those rights away. And under this philosophy of government given rights the individual would not have any reason to protest a perceved injustice, because what standard do you measure justice against at that point.

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There ARE no absolute rights, you're right. Rights are something that are negotiated between society and the government. That is precisely why you have a written constitution to define them....

Chuck:
Our rights were not created to protect us from society, or bad people in it. Our rights, which can only be legally taken away by an agreement of the people, exist to protect us from OUR GOVERNMENT.
As show by what is happening in the U.S. now. Government for the most, part left alone is inherentyly bad.
Our founding Fathers realized that, and gave us written rights beyond the British originals, to protect us from that fact.