petty bickering about a racing incident that happened 10 years ago thread

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Originally Posted by ioan

Look who's talking! :rolleyes:

Tam is only showing you the FACTS that prove that you are dead wrong. Still your go on with your petty personal attacks.

I can only pity you.

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Sorry Tamb

I never seriously meant you were getting like ioan. It was supposed to be in jest and I would never accuse you of that.

At least you add value to a thread instead of the same inane rubbish that has no bearing to the thread.

I unreservedly apologise Tamburello and am sorry to have suggested otherwise.

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Originally Posted by ioan

He almost never provides proof for his claims outrageous claims, and that's normal as there is no such proof. Still he will not stop yelling and asking for proof even after you give him a few well documented links. It's really tiresome to try to have a "discussion" with some people around here.

PS: Tam, you did a wonderful job explaining what happened back in 1993 and 1994! :up:

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Sorry ioan, another blatent LIE!!!

If you come on here and LIE, then you have to expect people to call you a LIAR.

Here is another perfect opportunity for you to prove me wrong.

If it's an opinion, I will make it clear but if I am quoting facts such as the use of Blue Flags during a GP weekend, (you remember that little arguement where you swore blind that what was written in black and white of the FIA regulations was wrong and you were right), I back those facts up with a referencable, reliable link.

Please don't take this as any sort of personal attack ioan but I'm merely pointing out that posts such as the one I quoted are nothing more than Lies.

If you don't want people to keep pointing out that you are a Liar, you just have to stop doing it.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Sorry ioan, another blatent LIE!!!

If you come on here and LIE, then you have to expect people to call you a LIAR.

Here is another perfect opportunity for you to prove me wrong.

If it's an opinion, I will make it clear but if I am quoting facts such as the use of Blue Flags during a GP weekend, (you remember that little arguement where you swore blind that what was written in black and white of the FIA regulations was wrong and you were right), I back those facts up with a referencable, reliable link.

Please don't take this as any sort of personal attack ioan but I'm merely pointing out that posts such as the one I quoted are nothing more than Lies.

If you don't want people to keep pointing out that you are a Liar, you just have to stop doing it.

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Bla bla bla!

I said almost never! If you need me to translate you what almost means than don't be shy, just ask.

As for your petty attacks, as I said, I pity you.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Welcome back Ioan aint seen you in a while :)

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Took a little holiday, to enjoy the life far from the mad house! ;)

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Originally Posted by ioan

Bla bla bla!

I said almost never! If you need me to translate you what almost means than don't be shy, just ask.

As for your petty attacks, as I said, I pity you.

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Actually, could you demonstrate it for me by quoting all these posts I have made where I have made an untrue claim that I have failed to substantiate.

It's OK, I wont hold my breath otherwise I would have suffocated over the untrue Massa claim you levelled me. Remember that one :laugh:

Or are you talking about having a different opinion to you ;)

As for petty attack, it's just quoting the facts but I'm happy for you to prove me wrong.

<Holds breath>

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Actually, could you demonstrate it for me by quoting all these posts I have made where I have made an untrue claim that I have failed to substantiate.

It's OK, I wont hold my breath otherwise I would have suffocated over the untrue Massa claim you levelled me. Remember that one :laugh:

Or are you talking about having a different opinion to you ;)

As for petty attack, it's just quoting the facts but I'm happy for you to prove me wrong.

<Holds breath>

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You should have realized it already, but given that you didn't I'll help you out and tell you that I do not wish to lose time trying to have a discussion with you.
There is no way for such, as it always ends with your personal attacks, and I had enough of it already.
I'll limit my posts to answer your petty hilarious personal attacks in a similar fashion. That's it. Case closed.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I'll limit my posts to answer your petty hilarious personal attacks in a similar fashion. That's it. Case closed.

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Here's an idea for you, if you can't be bothered to discuss with someone in a reasonable manner, as you said you can't with Knock on, don't say anything at all to him. Less time wasted for everyone, you two, me and pino, and to other members who have to read through your rubbish.

And the same goes for Knock on.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

It's bull to say they need to baseline. Why? They should know what is happening when the wheels are losing grip unless they are using electronics to minimise the effect.

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Not quite.

The idea was to get a recording of the best settings for torque, in the hope that the Engine Management could replicate these. This was not Traction Control, as TC was a 'reactive' system. This concept was more 'predictive'.

Obviously, the better set up the car was in testing, the less TC was needed, so it was necessary to know at what point TC cut-out. This would...well, should, not only give a better base-line for power delivery (torque settings) but also have a, and I apologise for the pun, knock-on into other areas, such as tyre wear & fuel consumption.

I'm pretty certain that is what Ferrari were trying to do eventually with their 'Engine Modulation System' they ran in practice at Aida, based on the notion that they were following a similar line of thinking.

Their mistake was, it seems, to have turned up at a GP and run with the system operating.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

At end of day, we can't prove they used it in the race, so would be wrong to punish them for it.

But all the facts imply they used it, everything was in place for them to use it, the paddock complained that they thought Benetton were using it. ....

.....However, as I've said, all the evidence and circumstances imply they did. Which is unfortunate, as for me, an illegal car won the championship by forcing an accident at last race.

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All the evidence does not imply that TC was used.

If your statement was fact, then Liverpool Data Research Associates Ltd. (LDRA) would not have stated that they could not show it was used.

In this vital piece of evidence, it says the exact opposite.

I prefer to stick with proven evidence rather than paddock gossip, but if you wish to take the statements of people who did not have the analysis of the system to study above those who did, I can see why you aren't willing to accept my version of events.

But that doesn't actually improve your argument. Proven Facts have a legal basis, hearsay doesn't.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Also, with regards to traction control being banned, whats an exact date? I found one saying June, you insisted it was July, and now say October. Why did you previously say it was July?

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The ban on driver aids became official in October. It was first suggested in June, and by July it was pretty certain that it would be. Certainly there was an expectation by then, which gave those in charge of designing the 1994 cars a problem as to what to do because the only thing you could ever be sure of was that being pretty certain of something happening in F1 meant that it wasn't certain.

If, and nothing was certain until October, a team had begun design & development on the 94 car without development of the TC system and then at the last minute TC had been given a reprieve, that team would have been behind the opposition.

The decision to proceed with development of the B194 on the basis that TC would be fitted was made whilst it was not definitive that driver aids were out for 94.

A lot of teams, Benetton & Ferrari amongst them, had only just started to use TC (Benetton first ran with it at Monaco, May 1993) and the top management were very resistant to the idea that all the cost, expenditure, development and investment would be thrown out after only 9 or so races.

The view that the ban on driver aids would be a good thing was not a unanimous one within the paddock. Williams, the masters of driver aids, were pretty pissed that their laudable efforts in gaining a fantastic advantage would be wiped out. At least, those engineers I knew on a professional level who worked for Williams were not thrilled by it.