Was Lewis passing Heikki legal?

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I take it you can back that up, as per your signature.

Oh dear, you cant. Hypocrite :laugh:

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Why do you think I can't? There is a complete thread about the matter, if not 2 or more! So don't make yourself look like a clown. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I am yet to see a transcript where Heikki says "McLaren prevented me from racing Lewis".

If you can provide one, then fine but I don't know how Heikki could race Lewis when he was going slower? The best he could do was stop him from passing and as faster drivers like Jnr and your revered Massa couldn't what hope had Heikki of doing better?

If I remember correctly, the quote you are claiming supports your case is where Heikki allegedly says that the team told him that Lewis was faster. Even by the unsubstantiated quote you refer to, there is nothing about team orders.

Yet, you say this is team orders with no proof :laugh:

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There were people who posted what they found in the Finnish media, still you ignore it because it doesn't suit your biased opinion.
And than you say no one has proof, you clown!

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I'm afraid that I rarely understand what you're talking about.

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That's normal, with your level. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I didn't agree with 2002 and nor did most people including your friend Max because a faster driver slowed to let a slower driver through.

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Well, you seem to agree now, don't you see it as hypocrisy?

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

In Germany, a slower driver got out of the way of his faster team mate who then went on to overtake 2 rivals and win the race.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp, even for yourself ioan.

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It was team orders, no matter how you turn it. I'm not against it, but it baffles me that you lot of McCheat fans chose to close the eyes and wash your brains.

I think I'll stop discussing any serious matters with such people as you, whom only laugh about whatever you bring to the discussion.

It's like that saying: "Don't ever argue with an idiot, he will bring you down to his level and beat you with his experience!", or something along those lines.

Ioan I suggest keeping the personal "you clown" comments to yourself. If nothing else you are hypocritical with your attacks on fellow "clown" forum members all the while ranting about not making personal attacks on fellow forum members. Act as you preach and perhaps you'll gain a little respect from your fellow forum members, or just continue down the bumpy road you already chose. It's only up to you.

Anyway back to the thread. Does anyone have any concrete (not circumstantial) evidence of team orders yet?

Comparing 2008 Germany and 2002 Austria events and saying one was right and the other wasn't, isn't quite proper IMO.

Back in 2002 the team orders were not prohibited yet and hence there was nothing illegal. Yes, it may have been unfair to Rubens to lose the win, but if Ferrari felt that they needed to give some extra points for Michael to ensure his WDC lead (by that point we had had only 6 races and everything in F1 can change quickly, his title wasn't secured by then), then it's hard to disapprove with their decision. After all, Michael made a "payback" at the end of 2002, handing Hungarian, Italian and US Grand Prix wins to Rubens, so all in all RB has gained more wins than MS with the help of team-mate!

McLaren made the right decision in Germany, especially as Heikki seems out of the championship contention anyway and it doesn't make much difference for him if he gained one point by blocking or not (if for Lewis there were more points to lose).

I don't think we should have so much discussion about this topic for some many pages here.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

I understand that viewpoint, but then it can also be argued that by slowing the Number 2 down on the last corner, rather than using a shambolic running-wide scenario or straight-forwardly dishonest 'brake problem' ,shows to the world that actually he was faster and that the team-order wasn't being hidden.

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Well I don't think you can put huge blame on McLaren themselves, the drivers takes some blame as well. It's a bit like 1982 San Marino GP - Ferrari told the drivers to slow down, Pironi thought he was still free to race whereas Gilles thought it meant to hold station.

DC recently mentioned he perhaps should've been more selfish in his career. He mentioned that Australian GP he could've ignored those orders and won the race himself.

No one knows the exactly how those orders should've been implemented. Whomever made the call to Heikki but there is onus on Heikki to make up his own mind on how to exactly implement those orders. IMO it looked like Heikki was quite hesitant but decided to let Lewis through at the last moment.

The person who really knows is Heikki.

I don't agree with Ioan and his hypocrisy/McLaren conspiracy theories. People have different interpretations on the implementation and you tifosi are a fickle group to deal with! :p

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Originally Posted by jens

Comparing 2008 Germany and 2002 Austria events and saying one was right and the other wasn't, isn't quite proper IMO.

Back in 2002 the team orders were not prohibited yet and hence there was nothing illegal. Yes, it may have been unfair to Rubens to lose the win, but if Ferrari felt that they needed to give some extra points for Michael to ensure his WDC lead (by that point we had had only 6 races and everything in F1 can change quickly, his title wasn't secured by then), then it's hard to disapprove with their decision. After all, Michael made a "payback" at the end of 2002, handing Hungarian, Italian and US Grand Prix wins to Rubens, so all in all RB has gained more wins than MS with the help of team-mate!

McLaren made the right decision in Germany, especially as Heikki seems out of the championship contention anyway and it doesn't make much difference for him if he gained one point by blocking or not (if for Lewis there were more points to lose).

I don't think we should have so much discussion about this topic for some many pages here.

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Someone who talks something that makes sense! :up:

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Originally Posted by wedge

I don't agree with Ioan and his hypocrisy/McLaren conspiracy theories. People have different interpretations on the implementation and you tifosi are a fickle group to deal with! :p

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We might be a fickle group to deal with, but we are no hypocrites and we are able to judge and criticize the ones we support.
The day I see this from the McLaren fans is not near, not at all. There are Mc fans who, even after the team publicly acknowledged that they did something wrong last year, still say that McLaren were not guilty. And you call us difficult and fickle. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ioan

We might be a fickle group to deal with, but we are no hypocrites and we are able to judge and criticize the ones we support.
The day I see this from the McLaren fans is not near, not at all. There are Mc fans who, even after the team publicly acknowledged that they did something wrong last year, still say that McLaren were not guilty. And you call us difficult and fickle. :rolleyes:

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Well yes, the hardcore team fans are a fickle bunch.

I don't know who the McLaren fans are on the forum but the Ferrari/Schumi fans are easy to spot.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

At end of the day, we have world news, coming from different languages all around the world, if it had enough credibility, it would have made it into the British press. So I'm sorry, but I'd rather base my opinions on known facts, not tabloid Finnish papers and hear'say.

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Originally Posted by ioan

That's a good one. The english press won't print it cause they don't know about it or don't understand it, so we call it a biased Finnish article!

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Have either of you actually bothered to do the reasearch to back this claim up though? It should in theory be simple to find such a scandalous set of commments in the Finnish tabloids.

Except that said Finnish articles don't actually exist.
http://haku.iltasanomat.fi/haku.aspx...ikki&x=15&y=10
http://www.iltalehti.fi/haku/index.s...29lkzeata#1073

If you do a search through either Ilta-Sanomat or Iltalehti for "Hekki" and "Saskan GP" then the supposed comments still don't want to surface. The "biased" Finnish press which should be pulling for Finnish drivers in theory simply is not doing so. I therefore have no other option but to call Shenanigans on this.

SHENANIGANS! SHENANIGANS SHENANIGANS

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Originally Posted by jjanicke

Anyway back to the thread. Does anyone have any concrete (not circumstantial) evidence of team orders yet?

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According to our board sleuths, Heikki spilled the beans. But everything was in Finnish. And we all know that there are only three people in the world who speak Finnish... so there's really no point in them posting it here. Course, I just happen to know one of the three people in the world who speaks Finnish. He's a long time forum member here (more a Kimi fan than a Heikki fan), who just doesn't happen to post here much anymore (gee, wonder why?)

Rather than these people being vague and making it up as they go, if there is an interview with Heikki, it should be posted here.

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Originally Posted by ioan

:laugh:

That's a good one. The english press won't print it cause they don't know about it or don't understand it, so we call it a biased Finnish article!

I think we should only take for objective what the Spanish press says about Lewis after all the british are clearly biased and not worth reading. :rotflmao:

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The wording of that post doesn't make much sense to me I'm afraid.

English is the international language. So all news worth mentioning and has credibility will one way or another translate over to English one way or another.

I think if Heikki had said that, an English languaged based media source would have released that - as its a pretty damning interview - according to your source with no reliable link, and a source which 99% of us can't understand :) .