Max Mosley opens a can of worms.

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29th May 2008, 15:43
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

That's not news, it was around last year too...

Benetton were certainly discussed because doing a quick search I came across these comments:

[quote=Osella;400546]
You don't perchance remember 1994 then...? And the 'real' reason Michael Schumacher copped a three race ban for overtaking on the parade lap!? A certain Italian team boss of a certain Anglo-Italian team wrote an open letter saying a certain FIA president was not fit for the job...his team was then investigated over; traction control, fuel filling, warm-up lap driving, ignoring a wrongly-issued penalty (by the FIA's own stewards no less) and very nearly lost the world championship as a result. There were no murmors or a 'witch hunt' back then by the FIA against Benetton, and indeed certainly in the British press (less so in the specialist motorsport press however) it was assumed they had been cheating all along and should be thrown out.

[quote=Harm Kuijpers;359232]
Geee... remember 1994? When Benetton cheated with driver aids (they were on the car, they just couldn't prove they had actually used em) and MS still won the WDC. Talking about disputable WDCs...

[quote=ioan;347991]
A case that is more like what we have no is the 94 Benetton TC case, and there again Max and Bernie orchestrated everything just like now, "for the well being of the sport" and their pockets....

But I don't believe the extent of Max's involvement in influencing the outcome was known at the time. Perhaps someone else can find something that says differently.
29th May 2008, 15:49
SGWilko

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Benetton were certainly discussed because doing a quick search I came across these comments:

[quote=Osella;400546]
You don't perchance remember 1994 then...? And the 'real' reason Michael Schumacher copped a three race ban for overtaking on the parade lap!? A certain Italian team boss of a certain Anglo-Italian team wrote an open letter saying a certain FIA president was not fit for the job...his team was then investigated over; traction control, fuel filling, warm-up lap driving, ignoring a wrongly-issued penalty (by the FIA's own stewards no less) and very nearly lost the world championship as a result. There were no murmors or a 'witch hunt' back then by the FIA against Benetton, and indeed certainly in the British press (less so in the specialist motorsport press however) it was assumed they had been cheating all along and should be thrown out.

[quote=Harm Kuijpers;359232]
Geee... remember 1994? When Benetton cheated with driver aids (they were on the car, they just couldn't prove they had actually used em) and MS still won the WDC. Talking about disputable WDCs...

[quote=ioan;347991]
A case that is more like what we have no is the 94 Benetton TC case, and there again Max and Bernie orchestrated everything just like now, "for the well being of the sport" and their pockets....

But I don't believe the extent of Max's involvement in influencing the outcome was known at the time. Perhaps someone else can find something that says differently.

At least the letter claiming the FIA president was not fit for the job was truthful!

And ioan's post you quoted was spot on about the Max & Bernie money machine. :)
29th May 2008, 17:21
Mickey T

well, my mail is that Max has promised enough favours to representatives of the little nations and there are real fears from the bigger nations that he will get over the line...

...but they have a contingency plan in case that happens.

my understanding is that if max gets his shenanigans passed, the larger organisations, such as the RAC and ADAC, the US, France, Italy, Australia, Brazil etc, will resign from the FIA and form their own governing body.

watch this space.
29th May 2008, 19:46
Zico
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Bahrain Prince asked Mosley not to attend[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Toyota also critical of Mosley's actions[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Honda asks FIA to consider Mosley's role[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Theissen stands by Mosley criticism[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
ADAC tells Mosley to reconsider his role[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Dutch federation wants Mosley to quit[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
American body asks Mosley to step down[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Ickx joins calls for Mosley resignation[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Lauda also joins call for Mosley to go[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Mosley faces more calls to resign[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Hill: Mosley should reconsider position[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
South African body tells Mosley to quit[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Porsche: scandal makes F1 unattractive[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Webber: F1 'cannot afford' Mosley scandal[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Israel withdraws Mosley invite[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Mosley to skip official functions in Monaco[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]
Car makers skip FIA engine meeting[/*:m:1cw3yhsi]

Perhaps, but you can't simply set aside one aspect of this. The effect is cumulative. As a number of leading automobile clubs have made clear the FIA's "image, reputation and credibility are being severely eroded. Every additional day that this situation persists, the damage increases."
To your list add all the representatives from.. America (AAA and AATA), Singapore (AAS), Germany (ADAC), Finland, (AL), Canada (CAA), Brazil (CCB), Denmark (FDM), France (FFA), India (FIAA), Japan (JAF), the Netherlands (KNAC), Sweden (M), Hungary (MAK), Israel (MEMSI), Austria (OEMTC), Spain (RACC and RACE), Belgium (TCB) and Switzerland (TCS).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7425422.stm
29th May 2008, 21:29
Valve Bounce

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

That's not news, it was around last year too, when they had to deal with the McCheaters.
However everyone around here decided to overlook it because it wasn't in the interest of McLaren.

LINK PLEASE!!
29th May 2008, 21:34
Valve Bounce

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGWilko

At least the letter claiming the FIA president was not fit for the job was truthful!

And ioan's post you quoted was spot on about the Max & Bernie money machine. :)

I agree. I don't know where ioan got this from or whether he just suspected it, but he was spot on with regard to Bernie and Max's collusion. However, I don't remember any inferences going as far as the new revelations go regarding the inclusion of a German champion to bolster Bernie's pocket. Having a Pom WDC at the time made no sense to increasing TV ratings on the Continent.
30th May 2008, 04:13
gloomyDAY

Mosley needs to split. At this point in time there is only one of two ways this situation will end.

Humiliation or a tantamount of humiliation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Give me a brake, because I don't have the same view as you it doesn't mean that there aren't others who think alike.

Why should anyone give you a break? I thought the purpose of this site was to have some clash and get to, read carefully Ioan, a point. You've been writing a bunch of nonsense that somehow got linked to McLaren being caught cheating last year.

1) McLaren has nothing to do with this thread, let it go.
2) Mosley is being isolated by the F1 elite.
3) Maybe these are the reasons why people don't take you seriously.

You should take a look at the cold hard facts.

Quote:

WRC is doing very fine too.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica....f_notagain.gif

Words cannot describe the stupidity of that statement.
30th May 2008, 04:23
leopard

Who is it, my bright and contrast functions are at maximum level but failed to identify him.
He resembles magician who hides behind the mask frequently I watch at "The secret finally revealed"
30th May 2008, 06:12
pino

One more time...please stay on topic and stop posting personal comments/attacks. Don't force me to do somenthing I hate to do :)
30th May 2008, 06:25
Valve Bounce

It is interesting that ioan tells me that Max has nothing to do with the Concorde Agreement and that it is Bernie who is actually involved with it. (see post #21 of this thread)

It is even more stupid of me that I believed him without checking the facts or asking him for a link to this piece of information.

I find it incredible how little I knew of Max until I stumbled onto this by simply typing Max's name in Google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Mosley
.........and lo and behold, it was actually Max who in his role as Legal Advisor to FOCA frew up the first version of the Concorde Agreement.

More fool me :(

I guess both Bernie and Max are/were trying to influence the direction F1 will head, as the regulations will affect Bernie's side very much, and it would be in Bernie's interest to ensure that if new regulations are drawn up at any time in the future, they do not affect the number of teams, the spectacle of the races and the money flowing into his pockets via television rights. The two paths are intertwined.

Whether Bernie would try to influence the FIA directly is another thing, as he could easily discuss the ramifications of any new rule changes in a friendly "unofficial" manner with the FIA before such rules are implemented. Of course, to do so, he would have to be friendly with the President of the FIA; a relationship which appears to be fading fast under the present climate of relations between Bernie and Max.

And to add another comment to the list of Associations who want Bernie to step down, I think most of the nations involved one way or another in F1 are keen for Bernie to step down quietly before any vote is taken. In fct, I would ask whether any of the countries involved in running teams in F1 are not on that list.

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