Alonso hints at get-out clause WHY ?

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Originally Posted by janneppi

It's not really just about about Hamilton is it?
Here's what some snotty Brit apparently said last year:
http://www.duemotori.com/news//18593...at_Symonds.php

Originally Posted by http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...s/viewpost.gif
"He only had one very, very small chink in his armour when he drove for us," Symonds explained, "and that was the inability to accept being beaten."

"Actually that's a really good quality, but it was the one time he was perhaps slightly irrational -- when Giancarlo (Fisichella) beat him, for example."
"I think that what we've seen this year, with Lewis unexpectedly giving him such a hard time, it's opened up that chink a little bit,"

Pat Symonds is just another Hamilton apologist, right? :p :
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So the willingness to accpet being beaten is a good quality?
For a driver who is determined to be and has been a wdc?

Nope is like me when he says

"He only had one very, very small chink in his armour when he drove for us," Symonds explained, "and that was the inability to accept being beaten."

"Actually that's a really good quality,......,"

Actually I agreed and would hardly call that dumping, unless one prefers lap dogs for their drivers such as RB, DC and so forth who are more content and happy to always be number two, so they do NOT have"one very, very small chink in his armour , that was the inability to accept being beaten."

So what?

like I said:

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Originally Posted by markabilly

And I am still waiting for any evidence that Freddie did anything that cost the Hamster one single point by complaining about him to the FIA. But oh me, oh NO, Freddie is unhappy unless he is winning, freddie is unhappy unless he is ahead of his team mate--but who wants a driver who is happy running second?

This whole thread was started and is all about dumping once again on freddie...without squat to back it up

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For me, I do not care for either of them, and I do not blame LH for wanting to race him, it is just the manner in which LH and Ron D tried to do it, with the utmost hypocrisy (gee he will not play computer games with me in the hotel......) and the action of whining to the FIA about his own team mate, while everyone slams Freddie as though Freddie was the one whining to the FIA and costing Hamster points

As I said, give me evidence that FA went somewhere other than RD to start the ball rolling on the 100 million fine.....you can not. It started with his team mate taking away pole and five grid positions by publicly protesting the Mac decision as to who would have the last lap advantage with his behavior, to which freddie reacted, that day and the next morning with the utmost anger of a WDC--(and NOT as a lapdog happy to be second) and RD ratted out or blew the whistle on himself......

Give him back that pole, and even with a very unhappy second place finish for Freddie in that race, Freddie is the 2007 WDC--not Kimi (and as a fan of Kimi, I am grateful for hamilton's contribution to the WDC at Hunagary as well his doing the choke dance :D :D )

and never forget, LH finished second only based on tie breaker scoring due to more victories......such as the one given to him by the FIA at Hungary.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

So the willingness to accept being beaten is a good quality?

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Yes, if the alternative is irrational behaviour, as Symond put it. ;)
IMO Alonso has the habit of talking too much, wheter it's his comments in 2006 about Renault not doing enough to help him or last year's comments about McLaren favoring Hamilton. How much weight was there in his comments is for anyone to make up their minds, but the effect on his engineers and the team in general is hardly helping his position inside the team.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Yes, it disrupts 'a' team.....Mclaren.

Alonso & Renault is a completely different scenario. Different as in 'successful'.

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piquet will p@ss Alonso off at some stage this year and we will see the diva back.

Bourdais summed it up

"When he started acting the diva, more and more line-ups became occupied and some doors for him were even locked," Bourdais said.
"Me, I did wonder about where he would end up."

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Originally Posted by samuratt

About Massa's contract being extended i think that the only reason why this happened was because Massa's manager is Todt's son, and by extending Massa's contract Todt made sure his son would have enough money to survive now that is father si not running the f1 team anymore.

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That sounds to me like a conflict of interest. Personally, I think they re-signed Massa because not only is he a proven race winner, but he is prepared to play the team game.

Todt's manouvering for his Son's sake is the conflict of interest, and even I do not think that low of Todt to accuse him of such underhand tactics......

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Originally Posted by markabilly

first sign of drinking that kool aid stuff too much.....just look at poor Wilko

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Don't you worry about me, you look out for No. 1. :dozey:

I think we still can't rule out the possibility that Alonso will join Ferrari in 2009. Arguably Massa's 2010 contract depended on Jean Todt staying as a team principal, but by now Domenicali has taken over that role...

Thinking out loud here....

Is the title of this thread meant to be read as:-

Why a get out clause?

or

Why would Alonso openly hint at such a clause existing?

or

Both?

The need for such a clause perhaps undermines your potential faith in the teams abilities. Publicly airing such a clause is surely a slap in the face to his new (returning) team, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by jens

I think we still can't rule out the possibility that Alonso will join Ferrari in 2009. Arguably Massa's 2010 contract depended on Jean Todt staying as a team principal, but by now Domenicali has taken over that role...

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I think ultimately that will be a decision for LD-M, and influenced by the long term commitments of one KR.

If LH continues to impress and learn and improve as he did in his rookie year (choking aside for the repeaters on here), Ferrari may well have a vested interest in dangling a big fat juicy carrot in front of LH.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Thinking out loud here....

Is the title of this thread meant to be read as:-

Why a get out clause?

or

Why would Alonso openly hint at such a clause existing?

or

Both?

The need for such a clause perhaps undermines your potential faith in the teams abilities. Publicly airing such a clause is surely a slap in the face to his new (returning) team, isn't it?

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could it be because everybody makes so much noise about this???

I for one hope he never goes to Ferrari and I doubt he can go in Massa's place. I don't think it's Ferrari's policy to have two drivers capable of winning the wdc.

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Originally Posted by samuratt

Can you provide me with the statament made by Alonso's manager???? I do not remember it, maybe because it did not exist. On the other hand i remember Mad Max talking about the issue, and how Ron Dennis again lied to him by saying he had nothing to be worried about, and later packnicing about the prospect of being blackmailed. Yet again no proof that Alonso blackmailed the team, you only have Ron Dennis statement, and Max statement about what Ron Dennis have told him.

Please provide us (preferably me) with some solid proof that the blackmailing took place, and do not refer us to Ron Dennis words againn please, because if something has been proven this year is that he is a liar (even Max said so).

About Massa's contract being extended i think that the only reason why this happened was because Massa's manager is Todt's son, and by extending Massa's contract Todt made sure his son would have enough money to survive now that is father si not running the f1 team anymore. Furthermore, given the fact that Ferrari needed Massa to pull over to ensure Kimi was WDC, they had to give him something back in exchange. It is just a thought but as a therory it may be as valid as yours. I won't be surprised if Massa is dumped after 2008 to make room for another driver. Fernando perhaps? who knows...

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Re: Alonso's comments to Dennis you can look for yourself. Ultimately what is important is that motorsports people believe that account as indicated by the Bourdais quote later. He didn't do himself any favours with his conduct at McLaren regardless of what Hamilton did.

Re: Massa, possibly but I doubt it.

Whilst Ferrari might be a nepotistic team they aren't stupid. This is a team that when looking for Schumacher's successor signed someone who was contracted up to the eyeballs with McLaren in Kimi. If they had really wanted Alonso they'd have signed him when they had a free seat and he wanted to quit McLaren, ie 2007, not leave him free to sign a contract with another team. Chances like that don't happen often.

I also believe that from mid-2007 onwards Todt was sidelined from main F1 operations, certainly at a management level. Just as McLaren's 2008 launch was interesting because of Bernie's presence, the 2008 Ferrari launch was interesting because of Todt's absence. The guy who steered Ferrari for more than a decade was nowhere to be seen. Neither is he to be found in a senior management position at Ferrari proper where he was supposed to be 'promoted' to. I don't know what his current role is but he isn't the power he once was and neither do I believe he would have had the power to sign Massa again if LdM had wanted Alonso.

Another thing is that Ferrari have been utterly utterly consistent about Alonso in that they have stated that he does not have the right temperament for Ferrari (even from when he was at Renault) whilst singing Kimi's praises. As has been mentioned elsewhere it is not Ferrari policy to have two top drivers in competition but to have one who is willing to hold a secondary position like Massa. Alonso does not fit into this picture at all.

Alonso at Ferrari is never going to happen unless something untoward was to happen to Kimi.

[quote="


Neither is he to be found in a senior management position at Ferrari proper where he was supposed to be 'promoted' to. I don't know what his current role is but he isn't the power he once was and neither do I believe he would have had the power to sign Massa again if LdM had wanted Alonso.

[/quote"]
Ferrari CEO Jean Todt

http://www.fosagold.org/F1SA/index.p...=4988&Itemid=2

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Why would Ferrari want Alonso?

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Gee, I don't know, maybe because he's been the highest scoring driver over the past 3 years?? Beating MS/Ferrari/FIA collectively. Kind of makes sense, no?

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Don't you worry about me, you look out for No. 1. :dozey:

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KR seems to be looking out for himself pretty good lately....i think he quit the kool aid more than a year ago when he left mac.....try it sometime, but you need to be off it for a good six months. :o

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

Re: .

As has been mentioned elsewhere it is not Ferrari policy to have two top drivers in competition but to have one who is willing to hold a secondary position like Massa. Alonso does not fit into this picture at all.

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well you finally got one thing absolutely right... :D ..there are drivers and there are champions...

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

That sounds to me like a conflict of interest. Personally, I think they re-signed Massa because not only is he a proven race winner, but he is prepared to play the team game.

Todt's manouvering for his Son's sake is the conflict of interest, and even I do not think that low of Todt to accuse him of such underhand tactics......

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So you do think that Massa's signing back in 2005 was only because of his outstanding drives in a Sauber???? do you really think that Jean todt and his son had nothing to do with it??? if yes, then you are quite naive.

Abobut the resignment, as i previously posted could be the result of Massa giving up a win at his home track to make Rainkonen champion, but i am sure that Jean todt and his son had somehitng to do again. In fact both should have carried the disccusion to make the arraegment. Did they doi it in Todt's ship (if he has one)???? XD

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

Re: Alonso's comments to Dennis you can look for yourself. Ultimately what is important is that motorsports people believe that account as indicated by the Bourdais quote later. He didn't do himself any favours with his conduct at McLaren regardless of what Hamilton did.

Re: Massa, possibly but I doubt it.

Whilst Ferrari might be a nepotistic team they aren't stupid. This is a team that when looking for Schumacher's successor signed someone who was contracted up to the eyeballs with McLaren in Kimi. If they had really wanted Alonso they'd have signed him when they had a free seat and he wanted to quit McLaren, ie 2007, not leave him free to sign a contract with another team. Chances like that don't happen often.

I also believe that from mid-2007 onwards Todt was sidelined from main F1 operations, certainly at a management level. Just as McLaren's 2008 launch was interesting because of Bernie's presence, the 2008 Ferrari launch was interesting because of Todt's absence. The guy who steered Ferrari for more than a decade was nowhere to be seen. Neither is he to be found in a senior management position at Ferrari proper where he was supposed to be 'promoted' to. I don't know what his current role is but he isn't the power he once was and neither do I believe he would have had the power to sign Massa again if LdM had wanted Alonso.

Another thing is that Ferrari have been utterly utterly consistent about Alonso in that they have stated that he does not have the right temperament for Ferrari (even from when he was at Renault) whilst singing Kimi's praises. As has been mentioned elsewhere it is not Ferrari policy to have two top drivers in competition but to have one who is willing to hold a secondary position like Massa. Alonso does not fit into this picture at all.

Alonso at Ferrari is never going to happen unless something untoward was to happen to Kimi.

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So finally you admit there is no proof of Fernando blackmailing McLaren??? for me that is enough.

I do admit that Fernando did not do himself any favor by whining.

About Massa, i already said what I think. The truth we will never know, so having different opinion is not that bad :)

About Ferrari signing Fernando. Well you can be right, or you can be wrong! who knows??? As far as I know, but do not ask me for a proof, Todt did wanted to sign Fernando back in 2002 as a test driver, but Flavio came into the picture and offered a test role for one year and a race drive for the next. Fernando chose Renault and to Todt's pride (which is huge) that was a blown he had never recovered from. But i do agree with you that as long as Kimi is at Ferrari Fernando won't drive a red car.

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Originally Posted by samuratt

So you do think that Massa's signing back in 2005 was only because of his outstanding drives in a Sauber???? do you really think that Jean todt and his son had nothing to do with it??? if yes, then you are quite naive.

Abobut the resignment, as i previously posted could be the result of Massa giving up a win at his home track to make Rainkonen champion, but i am sure that Jean todt and his son had somehitng to do again. In fact both should have carried the disccusion to make the arraegment. Did they doi it in Todt's ship (if he has one)???? XD

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No, I think they wanted a return on their investment in him. Not everything in F1 has to be sinister you know. ;)

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

As has been mentioned elsewhere it is not Ferrari policy to have two top drivers in competition but to have one who is willing to hold a secondary position like Massa. Alonso does not fit into this picture at all.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

well you finally got one thing absolutely right... :D ..there are drivers and there are champions...

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Originally Posted by Stefano Domenicali

"We have our drivers who start (the new season) on an equal basis," he said. "They are going to play it out with their own chances of victory, and there are no changes from this point of view. They are both on an equal basis."

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64580

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64580

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Sub-titled: ferrari boss drinking RD kool aid.......so maybe Kimi's cup runneth over...or is it half full or half empty....???

Just when I thought it was safe to quit....

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Just when I thought it was safe to quit....

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Sorry everyone. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

Ferrari CEO Jean Todt

http://www.fosagold.org/F1SA/index.p...=4988&Itemid=2

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Interesting article.

So LdM who is Ferrari born-and-bred as opposed to Todt who is hired-by-Ferrari wants to come home from Rome back to Maranello and take over the reins.

Is LdM going to head the F1 team? Is he going to take over the roadcar business, or is he going to do more in his current official role as head of Ferrari SPA? Either way there is less space for Todt to do as he likes, and he certainly doesn't have the influence he had at the F1 team as he used to since he isn't even there anymore.

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

Interesting article.

So LdM who is Ferrari born-and-bred as opposed to Todt who is hired-by-Ferrari wants to come home from Rome back to Maranello and take over the reins.

Is LdM going to head the F1 team? Is he going to take over the roadcar business, or is he going to do more in his current official role as head of Ferrari SPA? Either way there is less space for Todt to do as he likes, and he certainly doesn't have the influence he had at the F1 team as he used to since he isn't even there anymore.

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It was LD-M who hired JT in the first place......

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Why would Ferrari want Alonso?
If piquet beats Alonso this year, crybaby`s reputation will sink even further.

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I'm sure that Flava Flavio will remove Piquet's wheel nuts during stops before he'll let that happen.

But with his new personal sponsor, Kleenex, at least Alonso will be well financed.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

It was LD-M who hired JT in the first place......

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Exactly, Todt is going to find himself expendable very soon I think...

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

Exactly, Todt is going to find himself expendable very soon I think...

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Jean Todt is the CEO for the sports car division, and dopes not have anything to do the racing team anymore. I would consider that a promotion rather than the opossite... though we don't know what Todt thinks about this.

cheers

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

But with his new personal sponsor, Kleenex, at least Alonso will be well financed.

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:) :) :) :) :) he he, very good, is it true ??????????

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Why would Ferrari want Alonso?
If piquet beats Alonso this year, crybaby`s reputation will sink even further.

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if the Macaca - Hamilton alliance didn't beat him how is piquet going to do that in a team that does know who can and who cannot win a championship?

I know it was hard for you to accept the fact that this guy beat you idol but come on... it's time to get over it.

Michael Schumacher claimed recently in an interview that Jean Todt, in spite fo being promoted to CEO, was still controlling somehow the F1 team and giving all his support to Stefano Domenicalli. So maybe Jean isn't nearly gone.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=33658

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Originally Posted by samuratt

Michael Schumacher claimed recently in an interview that Jean Todt, in spite fo being promoted to CEO, was still controlling somehow the F1 team and giving all his support to Stefano Domenicalli. So maybe Jean isn't nearly gone.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=33658

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called saving face in some circles

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Originally Posted by samuratt

Michael Schumacher claimed recently in an interview that Jean Todt, in spite fo being promoted to CEO, was still controlling somehow the F1 team and giving all his support to Stefano Domenicalli. So maybe Jean isn't nearly gone.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=33658

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Jean is getting old and tired and surely is planing for his retirement.
Running the whole Ferrari business and the F1 team wasn't easy and maybe he felt it was too much, so it was time to promote someone younger to the top of the F1 team a few years before he retires.

However, given how much the McLaren fans hate him for dominating the sport and for showing the world what kind of people RD and his team are, some are now trying to make it look like if he was thrown out of the F1 team.
But hey it's McL&C fans we are talking about! :p :

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Originally Posted by ioan

Jean is getting old and tired and surely is planing for his retirement.
Running the whole Ferrari business and the F1 team wasn't easy and maybe he felt it was too much, so it was time to promote someone younger to the top of the F1 team a few years before he retires.

However, given how much the McLaren fans hate him for dominating the sport and for showing the world what kind of people RD and his team are, some are now trying to make it look like if he was thrown out of the F1 team.
But hey it's McL&C fans we are talking about! :p :

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Don't you get tired of constantly attacking people who don't share your obsession for MS and Ferrari? I'm sure JT is not better than RD. I for one have more doubts about JT´s character.

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Originally Posted by eu

Don't you get tired of constantly attacking people who don't share your obsession for MS and Ferrari?

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No but I might get tired of you continuously attacking me when I didn't address you the slightest word.

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Originally Posted by eu

I'm sure JT is not better than RD. I for one have more doubts about JT´s character.

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I always knew you have a soft spot for cheaters and liars, nothing new really.