The degree of spectacularity of rally Finland is the best in the world. I don't how any other rally could do rallying more attractive to ordinary people.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
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The degree of spectacularity of rally Finland is the best in the world. I don't how any other rally could do rallying more attractive to ordinary people.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
Maybe but this years Rally Ireland proves you wrong to some degree. And the purpose of WRC is not to just get support and interest in Finland - it's to try and build it up and keep it as a world championship. So it's only fair and the right thing to do to expand the sport in other countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finni
From your point of view, I can fully understand why Finland should have a rally every year, but from the manufacturers point of view Finland is not a big market and perhaps not a very attractive one either. For them, Russia, Indonesia, etc are far more interesting. They will have new markets to reach via WRC results and they will have many more interesting sponsors.
There is also the whole driver issue, which I also described in another post. While it's nothing but impressive what Finland has delivered when it comes to quick rally drivers - it's at the same time a problem that very few nations occupy all the seats in our sport. You cannot build up WRC in the rest of the world if the Finns and the Norwegians occupy 60% of the seats. After all this is not a Nordic championship but a world championship. Hopefully some of these new venues will produce a couple of rally drivers from new countries.
Just for the record, I don't care about nationality, but most do, so it's important that FIA take this into consideration.
Plus there are events which the championship needs. Finland for one......Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Without Finland..... wtf?????
How did you come to this Info?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
I was at the Tour de Corse 2007, as long as i remember, the news on TV and Paper in Corsika says "As we dont have a WRC in every Year, we try to start with IRC"
IMO, if you bring the WRC to a country which doesn't know anything about it, you'll end up having a lot of "idiots" watching the rally, the sort of people who can't appreciate the fact that they are at an event which is the top of the rallying world. The sort of people that will throw away an autographed rally poster once the rally is finished and forget all about it... :/ Nothing drives me up the wall more than hearing someone say stuff like, oh, I thought that Gronholm is driving for Peugeot, wait, is Seat still competing in the WRC... :x What are you doing here if you don't know anything about it.
I feel that classic events should stay and rotate other events, but I guess that this will be hard to do with them trying to reduce the number of events per season. I agree with the comment that the european WRC events not taking part should be part of the ERC for example..
The info is from J.Mahonen, member of the FIA rally comission.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzerflitzer
From what I see in this forum and around it, there are plenty of non WRC host counties that have major knowledge and interests in rallying and are more reliable source of rally information they your country.Quote:
Originally Posted by N
I guess you have to count the "idiots" in your country before speaking of others.
And the there is those who knows the difference of a lousy organised rally and a good one, and who like to go and spectate good ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Why don't the Cezch's have a wrc event, they seem crazy about rally http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/show.php?id=7376
Can't remember to have seen any rally from Bulgaria and barely Russia
Good question!Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBARUNORWAY1
From what I perceive from people outside the rally fans world, they know about and turn some attention when Rally Monte-Carlo, Sweden, Finland or RAC are running like they know when the Dakar, Monaco GP F1, the football championships or the Olimpic Games are on.
But they know nothing about the rest.
So Imo, a win in one of these rallys may give more exposure to manufacturers than wining the whole championship, not to say wining in Bulgaria.
So Imo, these classics should stay and make them look like something special like Dakar is to RallyRaid or Monaco Gp to F1.
The new rallies in Poland, Russia, and Bulgaria have been under observation by FIA officials for many years. Bulgaria hosts ERC (20) event for about 40 years. I guess FIA will not accept these events if they don't comply with what's required. If you don't like going in other countries, that's your problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
There is very little to be gain in well established market, therefore you don't know much about what "gain" means for manufacturer. But I agree, the classic rallies should not rotate, as long as they want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Priorat
I dont have problem with new rallies, but I dont see the point why to rotate well organised rallies, before they did vote the best rallies every year, rotating the 3 lousiest organised would be ok and fair for those who make the events more than just a try to attract tourists, it would courage the other to do a better job too.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
What comes to visiting other countries to Poland i have been 8-10 times and 2 times to Russia + some 30 other countries not that it has anything to do with it, WRC events I have been watching about 30 something live, not from in front of PC.
I agree. I know nothing about manufacturers gains or bussines. But I don't think Mitsubishi and VW do the Dakar to open new markets in the desert or Renault tries to win Monaco GP to sell Clios in the Principality. They do because of the big name of the race and that sells a lot me thinks. So the same could be done with the classics. They already have the name. Now they only need to convert them to a bigger challenge so people turn they heads when somebody wins them. Could be something like tennis with the Grand Slam.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
I for one don't want to visit an unknown quantity. I've been to Finland twice now and I know what I'm getting plus the event has been run since before Jesus was born (Jesus Puras. Not the son of God Jesus). But go to a country which has never hosted a WRC event and I don't know what I'm going to get. Are the stages going to get cancelled because they don't have enough marshals and are people going to understand that standing on the outside of a corner is dangerous and so on.....Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Well nothing's stopping me from going to Finland for two weeks again. Just means I won't be able to fit a rally in at the same time. Oh well.....
You know, some people learn things very quickly. I guess you don't know that because it took you a lot of visits to Finland to learn where to stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
What are you on about? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Well, then keep your comments after you visit one of these new events, not now. If you don't know, you don't tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
How many reallies did you visit before you learn not to stand outside of turn?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
2.375Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Doesn't the same apply to you as well or have you visited these new events so that you can say they are all good ones?Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
How many rallies did you have to go to before you knew what a good rally was and what wasn't :pQuote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Insulting other countries is kind of sick you know, and then hiding behind other people's words and twisting your own to cover your a$$ is even worst. You think people around will not notice that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I'm sorry but we're on a completely different planet here. I never insulted any country :crazy:Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Whooo Poland!!! haha, jk, just tryin' to calm the mood.
What I don't like is only 12 rallyes a year, it was kinda necesary but still... I wish we could have 18 WRC rallyes a year.
But about the moaning of missing "classic" events, not even here we can find a consensus of wich ones are classic rallyes!, I think almost all current rallyes have been pointed out as "classic" at least in one post. if the FIA would try to "save" classic rallyes, an organizer from a non-classic rally could complain about why their rally isn't a classic. So I think they made a smart move not giving special treatment to any rally.
I think it's pretty clear which the classic events are. If you're not aware of them, I understand why you don't see the problem. It's not only those traditional events that need special treatment, it's the fans aswell. Most people don't like to see the appealing events being replaced by relative unknown rally's. I don't see anything strange about that. Sentimental value is also important.Quote:
Originally Posted by jso1985
I just don't think it's wise to make such radical changes at a point when WRC is not in it's strongest position. Ok, nothing is official yet, but I doubt that it will change that much. Is still wonder about mixed-surface events. Poland, Russia and Indonesia are on gravel and Bulgaria (Albena?) is on asphalt to my knowledge. Going back to the old Portugal and Sanremo rally could compromise a bit.
At the end of the day, despite the rally not being held every year in the same country, there will be one only a 200 to 300km away, just across the border. So there is hardly any excuse for not attending as a spectator or as a competitor.
Sweden with Norway, Cyprus with Turkey, Australia with New Zealand, Sardinia with Corsica and Finland with Russia.
Hardly requiring much effort for the keen rally fan to travel, while developing new fans in the new countries.
I just can not fathom why they have all the Asian events in the same year 3 in 2010 & none in 2009, the same with both Iberian events in 2009 when Spain & Portugal should be rotated in order to give the local fan the chance to attend one of the event per year. Ireland & Great Britain should be rotated for the same reason.
Very good points!Quote:
Originally Posted by Livewireshock
I think the reason is that the teams have complained about expensive travel costs - especially when going oversees. So by putting events close to each other the teams can make some savings.
Four fly away events should be adequate each year. In order to have a presence on at least 5 continents each year. 2009 is basically an up scaled European Rally Championship with just two events outside Europe.
One event should be in Asia, North/South America, Oceania & Africa/Middle East to ensure a World Championship.
The current rotation system is off balance in this regard. Plus I think 12 events is a more practical number for each year to allow for this, plus having the majority of events still in Europe where the biggest fan base is.
Won't Bulgaria and Poland BE part of Russia in a few years?
LOL
In summary, these calendars are a disaster. Leaving out key traditional events (Finland, GB, MC, Sweden) can only undermine the strength of the WRC series.
I'm all for "world tour", but can't we get rid of Turkey,Cyprus, Sardinia (or move it back to San Remo)?
'Skipping' years between events has to be a pain in the ass to organizers.
Why would you want to get rid of Cyprus, it's a good and challenging rally, just because the media label it as a hot car breaker rally, it's not that bad and you need to have good technique to conquer the rally.
I would love to see San Remo back in the WRC, but at the momement there are around 20 good rallies that "should" be in the WRC, yet, only 12 will be part of the WRC each year, sadly, the only solution is to rotate. But starting the season anywhere else but Monte Carlo is just wrong, :D
Personally, I can't think of a perfect solution. Manufacturers want around 12 events per season due to costs, on the other hand I would love to have more because a good event will always miss out.
Intresting read by J. Mahonen unfortunatelly only in Finnish but maybe someone will translate it to english...if I were you would not start to plan any trips based on 2010 calendar...
http://www.nesteoilrallyfinland.fi/s...i/default.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
hmmm...??? and what means this now? http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...d.php?t=123464
sportpolitics? Are this fights between FIA/WRC and some Rally-Organisations about the new Calendar and Rotation-System?
Or is the WRC/FIA loosing some of the older Events?
Sombody with more Italian Language to translate this, please.
Considering the fact that 2009 and 2010 calendars are draft versions only, I don't have to read anything to agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Considering that the WRC does not have a power figure like Ecclestone in F1, who is famous for his playing games with calendars in order to increase the value of a Grand Prix especially for himself. I am now left wondering if this could be part of a similar powerplay by the FIA amongst teams, the events & other concerned parties.
We all know there is no such thing as a scared F1GP with B.E. ready to sell to the highest bidder. That logic & madness could be the drive behind these calendars.
Give the teams exactly what they want in having a shorter 12 event calendar but then leave them squirming because of the mix of events under rotation. The teams could soon be screaming for a return to a longer calendar. which the FIA can sell at a higher cost to see who of the 24 rallies gets in. Could be a nice little earner in this light.
How is this for a conspiracy concept?
I hope that's all that it is. Whilst I understand money has to be made, I don't want it to come at the expense of the Championship or sporting considerations. 12 events is enough, keep the 'classics' that leaves 7 or 8 events to rotate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Livewireshock
I don't want events getting on the calendar because they bid the most money, look at F1, there are races on the calendar that shouldn't be on it, but because of money, they are. I don't want WRC going like that if it can help it.