Do Alonso get paid from Ferrari/others to thrash mclaren?

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Thats funny because I used it at that time, partly because I saw The exact same phrase posted by Ian McCraken about you!

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So that was the dirty rat!!! :D
wait till my lawyers start with a search warrant on his house and computers......

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Originally Posted by mikiec

EXACTLY! He wasn't saying that McLaren were racing Alonso, but that LH was! In an equal team with both drivers going for the WDC, and no driver favouritism, that's what should happen... both drivers trying to outwit and outrace each other.

Alsonso has spun it around in the Spanish media to sound like McLaren (the team) were racing against him.

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I think you are a little bit biased as well. Here is what RD said himself :

Dennis said after the race in Shanghai, when asked why they had not brought Hamilton in earlier for a tyre change, that "we were not racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando".


source :http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63505


And McLaren co-owner Ron Dennis defended their decision to delay Hamilton's stop by saying: "We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Alonso."

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7032284.stm

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Originally Posted by TL

It's not bcause you say you prefer this driver about the other as a person..it means they don't get the same material to race with..Big difference there !

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How could you hate your bloody son? Even feeling that you are backed by your boss (also seen like your second daddy) is enough to have an indirect competitive advantage . :D

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Originally Posted by TL

nah knowing my boss he would give me a second change (we all can have a bad day right ) but he would make me clear to not have it happen over and over and over again..............

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If my boss says things against me in public while working in the same company, why do I have to defend him?

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Originally Posted by TL

ever saw 100% prove they did or will use Ferrari parts anywhere ?

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They didn't appeal and they are ready to pay the record penality. It means there is something wrong somewehere!

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Originally Posted by F1MAN2007

How could you hate your bloody son? Even feeling that you are backed by your boss (also seen like your second daddy) is enough to have an indirect competitive advantage . :D

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it still is the son who has to drive the car on track..No daddy there to help him !

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Originally Posted by F1MAN2007

If my boss says things against me in public while working in the same company, why do I have to defend him?

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I wouldn't defend him either....I would just leave his company....simple as that ! But not start whining for weeks and weeks how bad he and his company treats me.....

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Originally Posted by F1MAN2007

They didn't appeal and they are ready to pay the record penality. It means there is something wrong somewehere!

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nono..my question was..did they anywhere found 100% prove ? Isn't that what the court should decide on ? not just speculations....and don't come up with the FA mails..that's not evidence.....Mails can be manipulated in so many ways anway !

To me evidence would be if they found exact the same parts/data on the MCL cars as the ones Ferrari is using...

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Originally Posted by paulcrazy

Well my fault, I need to make a correction, on paper RD use the word "we" I think, so,"we" probably refer to both RD and LH at least.

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Yes you are not sure. But when Ron Denis or Whitmarsh use the word "we" it means the team. They represent the team not Lewis. Unless the team means Lewis for you? :D


Here is what Whitmarsh said also using the same word accepting the mistake done by the team.

"In hindsight we left him out a lap too long. His tyres were very worn. It was our decision," said Whitmarsh.

Whitmarsh, McLaren's chief executive, said: "It's a shame we couldn't get the job done"

Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7032284.stm

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Originally Posted by TL

nono..my question was..did they anywhere found 100% prove ? Isn't that what the court should decide on ? not just speculations....and don't come up with the FA mails..that's not evidence.....Mails can be manipulated in so many ways anway !

To me evidence would be if they found exact the same parts/data on the MCL cars as the ones Ferrari is using...

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For the high technology, even the idea stolen somewhere is enough to change things dramatically. You get an idea of what your bitter rival is doing, then you adjust your equipments accordingly.

True, it is impossible to prove that Mac used the Ferrari info, but also you can't deny that this didn't happen. So, Mac caught with Ferrari property then it was enough to suspect them with intent to use the document. But still the 2 guys have caused damages to their respective team.

There is primal and second evidence. Hope you agree with this. I am not relating to the emails, but the Ferrari Bible was enought to inspire the Mac.

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Originally Posted by F1MAN2007

For the high technology, even the idea stolen somewhere is enough to change things dramatically. You get an idea of what your bitter rival is doing, then you adjust your equipments accordingly.

True, it is impossible to prove that Mac used the Ferrari info, but also you can't deny that this didn't happen. So, Mac caught with Ferrari property then it was enough to suspect them with intent to use the document. But still the 2 guys have caused damages to their respective team.

There is primal and second evidence. Hope you agree with this. I am not relating to the emails, but the Ferrari Bible was enought to inspire the Mac.

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well ya ok...you said it well there..suspect them...But I have my doubts that's enough evidence for a court to condemn someone ?

+ Ferrari property that was given to them by someone inside ferrari btw.....it was not stolen like some say here !

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Originally Posted by TL

ya and in the end have like 10 cars on the starting grid ?...6 of them with a ferrari engine in the back ? is that want you want the F1 to look like in the futur ?

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If that means cleaning up the sport than they should go for it.

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Originally Posted by TL

What's wrong for a team to say they prefer one driver in the team more than the other ??

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It's wrong that they lie to us that they support them equally, but the truth is that they prefer one of them. But that's McLaren and RD!

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Originally Posted by mikiec

EXACTLY! He wasn't saying that McLaren were racing Alonso, but that LH was! In an equal team with both drivers going for the WDC, and no driver favouritism, that's what should happen... both drivers trying to outwit and outrace each other.

Alsonso has spun it around in the Spanish media to sound like McLaren (the team) were racing against him.

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Actually, I think Ron said "we were racing Alonso." It was widely reported as such, even in The Times. Anyway, whether you like Alonso or not, no-one could disagree that it would be bad if Hamilton won it now through the courts. Bad for the sport.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

So that was the dirty rat!!! :D
wait till my lawyers start with a search warrant on his house and computers......

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Make sure you plant some Isotoner's that actualy fit the purpatrator

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Originally Posted by kusha

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If FA has talked, is just because he is and feels alone...

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If 20 Mio bucks per year ain´t enough to show some loyalty to your team and therefore to shut up sometimes, then he could have phoned his Mama when feeling oh soooo alone... What a disgraceful personality! He lost all my respect.

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Originally Posted by W8&C

If 20 Mio bucks per year ain´t enough to show some loyalty to your team and therefore to shut up sometimes, then he could have phoned his Mama when feeling oh soooo alone... What a disgraceful personality! He lost all my respect.

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He is paid 20 Mio to driver the car and this is what is in his contract. And the team has to show some respect also. :D

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Originally Posted by W8&C

If 20 Mio bucks per year ain´t enough to show some loyalty to your team and therefore to shut up sometimes, then he could have phoned his Mama when feeling oh soooo alone... What a disgraceful personality! He lost all my respect.

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It's his talent, his money, and his personality.
No one is holding a gun to his head.
To say nothing of the fact that you don't know him personally.
As far as he is concerned, your opinion aint worth squat on a squat stick.
I bet he is going to really miss your respect!

If RD hasn't learned to sack his "equal statuts" policy by now, he is really a fool. Fred must have some crazy pictures of RD or something because the idea that RD stands there and takes all this from Fred is unbelievable.

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Originally Posted by rabf1

If RD hasn't learned to sack his "equal statuts" policy by now, he is really a fool. Fred must have some crazy pictures of RD or something because the idea that RD stands there and takes all this from Fred is unbelievable.

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Maybe he had several different email accounts?! :s hock:

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Originally Posted by F1MAN2007

I think you are a little bit biased as well. Here is what RD said himself :

Dennis said after the race in Shanghai, when asked why they had not brought Hamilton in earlier for a tyre change, that "we were not racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando".


source :http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63505


And McLaren co-owner Ron Dennis defended their decision to delay Hamilton's stop by saying: "We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Alonso."

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7032284.stm

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OK, thanks. All I was after was a link to the quote so I could make up my mind... the other poster quoted it as 'I' rather than 'we'. I stand corrected.

However, in the context of the quote, 'we' could have meant the whole McLaren team or just the LH support side of McLaren.

TBH, I'll glad when we get to next season. For everyone's sake, I hope that FA will move on to another team (if he doesn't and stays and then whinges all next season about getting unfair treatment and inferior equipment then he only has himself to blame IMO) and we'll get to see who's the best driver on the grid.

And hopefully, we won't have all the political b****cks that we've had to endure this season!

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Originally Posted by F1MAN2007

I think RD and Maclaren were stupid in racing Alonso and from that point they lost even the only title which was obviously in their hand and Ferrari became a winner in all front!! They are now a laughing stock.

I think the first person to be sacked is RD. He managed the team badly sticking on poor policy of equality. Here is the result of equality and it was my expectation. Time to change the inadequate and unbalanced policy. Shame to him

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Until the final round I have been expecting there is McLaren person read the posts and whispering it to RD not to push down Alonso hardly for the benefit of LH by making an excuse about equality status of the two drivers.

McLaren was in the high self confidence that LH's point leading in long period of standing would warrant him win the title, and cast aside Alonso that he has sort of power playing the scene on the race. They thought in case at worse Hamilton failed they still have Alonso, but Alonso was second option.

The title was already in hand, McLaren need only to knock the door open and get in, but the fact said otherwise, this is the bitterest season for McLaren.

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Originally Posted by TL

+ Ferrari property that was given to them by someone inside ferrari btw.....it was not stolen like some say here !

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One more time (hopefully the last time!) It is ILLEGAL to POSSESS STOLEN MATERIAL! Stepney did not have permission or authority to give away technical data. That means he stole it. That means that when it was found in possession of a McLaren employee, it was illegal!

The example used over and over is something like this: If I work for a bank and I "give" you $100,000, do you think the police will visit you? Perhaps they will let you keep the money, after all, it was "given" to you!!

Is that simple enough to understand?

Back on topic, I think all the McLaren fans are in shock because a McLaren driver dares to speak his mind. Too bad Kimi, Coulthard, Montoya, and Hakkinen were not allowed to speak there minds while at McLaren!

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Originally Posted by leopardsleeping

The title was already in hand, McLaren need only to knock the door open and get in, but the fact said otherwise, this is the bitterest season for McLaren.

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Man you said a mouthful, and that's not even the half of it. I’ve always been indifferent to Ron. But he got in over his head when LH snuck up on the field. Ron had to make a choice. One that on the surface doesn't appear to be that difficult. Back the home grown kid who drove a great car practically flawlessly, or go with the disillusioned two time reining world champ that has copped a big time attitude about events(some real, and some imagined) that he never thought he would have to deal with this season. I can't say what FA's mentality or motives were with any kind of certainty. I can say this, McLaren, the team, somehow contrived to lose something a lot of people in the organization worked really hard to have. And, he wouldn't have lost it if he went with FA!

Well had Ron supported the twice WDC that he hired then he would have won all championships. Much like Frank Williams he could have excused Alonso after the season in favor of Lewis. That actually would have saved his ass and really would have been better for all. Instead he is fined 100 mill and has the "Brown" trophy - Well fitting for this asshole but two bad for the drivers. He lost with a superior car but probably to the best driver!!

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Man you said a mouthful, and that's not even the half of it. I’ve always been indifferent to Ron. But he got in over his head when LH snuck up on the field. Ron had to make a choice. One that on the surface doesn't appear to be that difficult. Back the home grown kid who drove a great car practically flawlessly, or go with the disillusioned two time reining world champ that has copped a big time attitude about events(some real, and some imagined) that he never thought he would have to deal with this season. I can't say what FA's mentality or motives were with any kind of certainty. I can say this, McLaren, the team, somehow contrived to lose something a lot of people in the organization worked really hard to have. And, he wouldn't have lost it if he went with FA!

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exactly ;)

For someone who tried to blackmail his own team (a criminal offence) Alonso got treated extremely well by McLaren!

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Originally Posted by rohanweb

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63581

Look at the news that Alonso opening his dirty mouth piece once again to thrash Mclaren.. the very same team he works for.. and getting paid from.

if I bring a company i work for in to disrepute and laughing stock , I would have fired right now and taken to court for damages!

why the hell Ron is keeping up with Alonso.
he should sack him right now and probably take him to court for taking mclaren team in to further disrepute..

Alonso has proved he is not a worthy champion but an overall idiot.. no matter what your problems with a team mate but thrashing his own team like this is extremely bad & once again he proved that he is a very small minded man with cunning attitude..he is not real talent, Lewis/Kimi IS .Alonso will not win any championships anymore & expect absolute fireworks from Lewis next year

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I agree, great spelling by the way :s mokin:

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

For someone who tried to blackmail his own team (a criminal offence) Alonso got treated extremely well by McLaren!

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I would always believe that there is no smoke without fire, then which one exist first, The chicken or the egg?

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Mclaren said that they were fighting Alonso. Why should he defend them? McLaren are an insult to F1.

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Then why the hell Alonso was driving for Mclaren, he should have walked off from the team, clearly he is no match for Lewis's talent..

yeh right..Alosno has not been faithful to his employers who pay him real cash in millions, why the heck he brings the employer in to such situation,

are you saying because he cannot compete with his rookie team mate he is 'allowed ' and 'did the right thing' to bring mclaren as whole in to disrepute.

anyone of the 1000's of employees working for mclaren got slapped on the face that when he claimed that he brought a winning car ( a 6/10 seconds is absolutely idiocy of Alonso.. he must have come from some uneducated silly background, therefore he cannot even expect a single mechanic to help him out, that was the very bad insult from alonso.. and he doesnt deserve to be treated any good.. Ron must sack him and take him to court to claim all damages.

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Originally Posted by alfa155btcc

I agree, great spelling by the way :s mokin:

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I write too fast mate..sorry

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

For someone who tried to blackmail his own team (a criminal offence) Alonso got treated extremely well by McLaren!

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some common sense still prevails here..
cheers Dylan.

I would probably taken to court and sacked by my employer if i ever blackmail my company, who pays me real monies to do the job.

probably in spain where Alonso come from its perfectly normal to thrash & blackmail your company, may be its because you feel some of your fellow colleague done a better job than him and you are dieing of jealousy..why not bring the company in to a laughing stock... yeh right!!!

Long live Spain & Alonso

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Originally Posted by kusha

When a team like McLaren, suposed to be one of the greatest in F1 history say that they prefer one racer than other, shows they are not having equality. When, like in China, Ron Dennis said they were fighting against Alonso and that he did prefer Kimi to win than Alonso...¿How the hell is defending Alonso in McLaren?. ¿How the hell is McLaren defending their interests?. Ron Dennis has made an horrible season. ¿How can Alonso run with people in his Team prefering an other Team racer to win?.

McLaren is British, Ron Dennis is British, Ecclestone is British... In some FIA discussions like the Safety Car problem, one of the referees was British and decided not to penalize LH. In that situation, that referee might not have been there. But this is FIAsco maFIA. No British has win F1 in 11 seasons, that's a fact. They want and need a title, but ¿With extra help?. This is not serious. If FA has talked, is just because he is and feels alone and really damaged with some FIA and McLaren decissions. If you work in a factory and you receive the same treat as FA has received in McLaren, YOU ALL very long time ago would have changed your jobs. But FA is a professional. He has continued racing, fighting against FIA, McLaren, Ron Dennis, Hamilton..., and even has kept 3º only 1pt behind Kimi. ¡That shows FA is the greatest racer in the world!. I wonder what would have Hamilton done in a Minardi, Super Aguri or Spyker this season, or what would have happened if FIA would have done his job seriously.

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Link!

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Originally Posted by wmcot

One more time (hopefully the last time!) It is ILLEGAL to POSSESS STOLEN MATERIAL! Stepney did not have permission or authority to give away technical data. That means he stole it. That means that when it was found in possession of a McLaren employee, it was illegal!

The example used over and over is something like this: If I work for a bank and I "give" you $100,000, do you think the police will visit you? Perhaps they will let you keep the money, after all, it was "given" to you!!

Is that simple enough to understand?

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so for an eg: you have a company with 100 employees, and 1 of them got a business file from some other company.. and how on earth your company gets penalised as a whole ?

its a criminal activity which had happened inbetween a ferrari employee and a mclaren employee.. and these two culprits to be taken to court and not the teams as a whole. ..its a real shame this has happened, the verdict from fia has given oppurtunities for all the teams to 'makeup' something like,befriend some guy from the teams across and share an email then bring on a case that 'data's been stealed by other team and work along securing 'championships' like this..Ferrari are very clever people.. we do know this very well. i suspect this is an inside job of Ferrari to bring mclaren in to disrepute, if mclaren were given possible 2 year racing ban, it would be good enough for them to have 'runaway' victories to win championships ( specially at the absent of MS ferrari needed some cunning ways to cover the gap)


I wonder why they kept the mclaren drivers on to the championship because FIA couldnt find any real proof that mclaren were actually using ferrari's data in thier cars, if they would have..then we wouldnt have seen both cars are racing till the end..

btw if Mr.Alonso requested details like weight distribution etc through sms (lol) then ferrari should have taken him to court also..so we have 3 suspects.

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Originally Posted by rohanweb

so for an eg: you have a company with 100 employees, and 1 of them got a business file from some other company.. and how on earth your company gets penalised as a whole ?

its a criminal activity which had happened inbetween a ferrari employee and a mclaren employee.. and these two culprits to be taken to court and not the teams as a whole. ..its a real shame this has happened, the verdict from fia has given oppurtunities for all the teams to 'makeup' something like,befriend some guy from the teams across and share an email then bring on a case that 'data's been stealed by other team and work along securing 'championships' like this..Ferrari are very clever people.. we do know this very well. i suspect this is an inside job of Ferrari to bring mclaren in to disrepute, if mclaren were given possible 2 year racing ban, it would be good enough for them to have 'runaway' victories to win championships ( specially at the absent of MS ferrari needed some cunning ways to cover the gap)


I wonder why they kept the mclaren drivers on to the championship because FIA couldnt find any real proof that mclaren were actually using ferrari's data in thier cars, if they would have..then we wouldnt have seen both cars are racing till the end..

btw if Mr.Alonso requested details like weight distribution etc through sms (lol) then ferrari should have taken him to court also..so we have 3 suspects.

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Let's stop this right here. The whole thing has been beaten to death in another thread for the past few months. I don't think any opinions have been changed on either side.

Back on topic - Has Alonso been paid to trash McLaren? No. I'm sure he would gladly do it for free!

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Originally Posted by rohanweb

clearly he is no match for Lewis's talent..

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As the results CLEARLY suggest...

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

As the results CLEARLY suggest...

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:rotflmao: I'm better than Kimi cos I says so :D

they are tied at the same points, what was the judgment of that no match ¿

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Originally Posted by leopardsleeping

they are tied at the same points, what was the judgment of that no match ¿

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Nationality!

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Originally Posted by rohanweb

some common sense still prevails here..
cheers Dylan.

I would probably taken to court and sacked by my employer if i ever blackmail my company, who pays me real monies to do the job.

probably in spain where Alonso come from its perfectly normal to thrash & blackmail your company, may be its because you feel some of your fellow colleague done a better job than him and you are dieing of jealousy..why not bring the company in to a laughing stock... yeh right!!!

Long live Spain & Alonso

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Would you mind leaving Spain out of your twisted train of thought?

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Donney

Would you mind leaving Spain out of your twisted train of thought?

Thank you.

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Of course Spain somehow wants a Finn to win rather than a Brit. At least that's what my girlfriend's best friends' sisters husbands brothers wife's unborn child's gerbil told me :)

All in a dream of course :)

P.S I don't see how countries come into this at all really.