FIA offical checking McLaren equality*Merged*

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I disagree OTA. It was not the FIA's place to involve themselves in what was an internal matter in Hungary, and it is certainly not their place now. Do they intend to have FIA officials in every pit garage? No. Just one. If every nations governing body has a word with Max about alleged favouritism against their driver(s) will he " reassure" them in the same way? No.

Some have said that the championships have been tarnished this season because of Spygate. I don't believe that to be the case, but I do think the FIA have tarnished F1 through their actions. This latest one being the icing on the cake.

It's hard to see it as anything more than a vendetta by the FIA President against a particular team :down:

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I wonder why so much defensiveness

[quote="ArrowsFA1"]McLaren have consistently maintained, and shown equality of treatment towards their drivers. It is a central aspect of RD's running of the team. QUOTE]

I wonder if you actually read what RD HIMSELF said about honesty and fairness. FYI RD said last week after the race that the pilot that they were running against was FA not KR. And what's scary is that you after reading this message go:"So what?" That's ok. There is nothing strange about that.
I don't even know whay I bother............

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

Would one of those drivers be the same one that was throwing his toys out his pram last year and claiming that Renault didn't want him to win the title and was trying to stick it to him?

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yep :)

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Ron says equality .

Lewis said he's no. 2 in Monaco .
Fernando says lewis is favoured .
Coulthard says Mika was favoured .
JPM says he was no. 2 .

Max said the drivers were not to be punished .
I guess this follows that promise , in that Alonso stands to lose points if his team-mate is blatantly favoured .

Is it Lewis's or Fernando's turn to pit second in the first stint ?
One of them has to be given the slot and be favoured .

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WOW!!! Wait, wait, slow down. I can keep up with what everybody says

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Originally Posted by trumperZ06

:p : Ole Maxie is making the FIA look like a bundering bunch of idiots !!!

:rolleyes: Only Max would grant IMMUNITY... to a driver who attempted to Blackmail his team...

then he went on to call a three time WDC & past team owner... a "Half-wit"...
...

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My remaining remnants of respect for the man went out the window when I had heard that he said that :dozey:

It is pointless to depate the merits of this action in this thread,

the obvious bias by the fIA and their stupid meddling is an embarrasment to the sport. Now if you can't see how ridiculous and personal this is then I feel sorry for you, cuase this has nothing to do with insuring equality.

They should then inspect everry GD team up and down the pitlane and ensure that no driver is favored more than another. Make sure that every spare car is equiped to both drivers , that every team doesn't assign preferential fuel and pit strategy to one driver, that every team, including Ferrari who have already announced favoring one driver over another, depsite the other with a legitimate chance of winning a GP, is going about it even steven.

The FIA and MM are a complete and utter joke at this point. Let's get this season over with and get on the real business of teams lodging protests and forming a breakaway league, where at least the illusion of impartiality may be presented.

Pathetic :down:

I have had Maxie calling me all day to go and watch over stuff at Brazil.

Tells me that he heard that I would make an excellent official FIA official and steward/watchdog, since I was blind in one eye and could not see out of the other!

Unfortunately, before even thinking, I admitted that while blind in one eye, I could barely see out of the other eye, just enough to see objects the size of very large buildings against a very bright sky.........and he withdrew the offer and slammed the phone down :mad:

;) I bet he's now calling Stevie Wonder !!!

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Originally Posted by truefan72

It is pointless to depate the merits of this action in this thread,

the obvious bias by the fIA and their stupid meddling is an embarrasment to the sport. Now if you can't see how ridiculous and personal this is then I feel sorry for you, cuase this has nothing to do with insuring equality.

They should then inspect everry GD team up and down the pitlane and ensure that no driver is favored more than another. Make sure that every spare car is equiped to both drivers , that every team doesn't assign preferential fuel and pit strategy to one driver, that every team, including Ferrari who have already announced favoring one driver over another, depsite the other with a legitimate chance of winning a GP, is going about it even steven.

The FIA and MM are a complete and utter joke at this point. Let's get this season over with and get on the real business of teams lodging protests and forming a breakaway league, where at least the illusion of impartiality may be presented.

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So all teams talk about their drivers as US and HIM? I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by Buzz Lightyear

FIA offical checking McLaren equality...... is this not at a spanish FAI official, who have been personally invited by Ron Dennis?

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Buzz apparently there was an invitation, as reported earlier today.
It has been conveniently over looked on this forum however! It is the FIA that decided to make an official one. I'm not sure if this Hombre is on official FIA business

Carlos Gracia, also an FIA vice president and member of the World Motor Sport Council, confirmed to the newspaper Diario As that he has accepted the invitation to watch proceedings at Interlagos from the Woking based team's garage.
"Ron Dennis extended me an invitation so that I can see that they have nothing to hide, and I decided to accept," he said.
http://www.dailyf1news.com/dailyf1ne...php?nwsID=3908

What an absurd thing to do. As much as I don't like Ron Dennis, I seriously doubt that he or any other team principal, would order that one of the teams cars be deliberately hobbled.

The mechanics could probably do something sublte to the car that this FIA offical could never find anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ari

So all teams talk about their drivers as US and HIM? I don't think so.

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First of all I wouldn't blame them if it were as you say it was, for Alonso was the one who brough the whole me vs. the team thing into it, so don't now look for a double standard

2nd and more importantly
it was in regard to Hamilton's strategy and what he and his race strategy was about. Afterall it was about Hamilton's car, his pit decisions and his tyres not the team's

So please don't bring anymore of that stuff into this thread as it is obviously another meritless opportunity to scrap.

The conversation here is about whether the FIA should be into monitoring a team for equality not about LH's tyre strategy in Fuji.

so let's get back to the subject

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

What an absurd thing to do. As much as I don't like Ron Dennis, I seriously doubt that he or any other team principal, would order that one of the teams cars be deliberately hobbled.

The mechanics could probably do something sublte to the car that this FIA offical could never find anyway.

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Quite right but I beleive this is more of a diplomatic way of them saying that they were asked to be invited. It makes no sense whatsoever to do that.
eitherway it turns out it can only spell trouble for Alonso or Hamilton.

If Hamilton wins then I assumne Alonso will complain and look to his rep for some support and the official won't be beyond saying he saw infractions

If Hamilton wins, he will claim interferance from the officials and that he wa put at a disadvantage since Alonso basically had his guys all over his side of the paddock.

Just a lousy stupid, stupid thing to do

Now if McClaren had quietly invited the FIA to come and that it be kept quite so that there would be no possible proof of impropriety and then the FIA turns around and publicly makes it an official overiste, I would be pissed if I were RD. For even when you try to do the right thing they bring the heat on you.

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As much as I don't like Ron Dennis, I seriously doubt that he or any other team principal, would order that one of the teams cars be deliberately hobbled.

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This man has already lied and cheated throughout the season, his team has been involved in illegal activity and everything that has come out from his mouth has been more or less BS, starting from his internal investigation to equal treatment.

FIA is only safeguarding Alonso who is in a very difficult position inside Mclaren.

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Originally Posted by ICKE

...FIA is only safeguarding Alonso who is in a very difficult position inside Mclaren.

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Safeguarding select drivers is the role of the FIA? :s

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Originally Posted by trumperZ06

;) I bet he's now calling Stevie Wonder !!!

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but can he check tire pressures?

I believe Alonso, Montoya and DC and not Ron Dennis. What FIA did is unpopular, but right.

This way RD can restore his "integrity", as, IF LH beats FA, he can claim it was done without interfering with FA in any way, hence the "legendary" equality.

Of course there is enough time to subtly "tweak" FA's car in the run up to the race on Sunday, and surely, the FIA delegate would require a working knowledge of the McLaren teams engineering / operations in order to detect anything foul?

I was also under the impression that said FIA delegate was there at RD's invitation, and not in an official FIA capacity??

Cheers,

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I believe Alonso, Montoya and DC and not Ron Dennis.

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So what? Most teams favour one driver over another. To single out McLaren for an investigation into driver equality is stupid.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

So what? Most teams favour one driver over another. To single out McLaren for an investigation into driver equality is stupid.

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Sabotaging a driver during championship battle is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Sabotaging a driver during championship battle is unacceptable.

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There's a big difference between sabotaging and favouring. Of the three drivers up for it, I'm hoping Alonso gets it. However, what's wrong with a team boss deciding who should win in this situation? He's done all the work to put his team together and build the car etc, why shouldn't he decide? If I was Ron Dennis I'd want to decide. The FIA don't allow team orders because it's supposedly bad for the sport, but is all this business any better?

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

I wonder why so much defensiveness

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It's not defensiveness, it's simply anger. It annoys the hell out of me that the FIA, or more particularly Max Mosley, are doing such a good job of damaging a sport I have enjoyed for more than 30yrs.

As I've said before, this is unprecedended and it is also unwarranted. In its most simple terms it is the governing body abusing its power to humiliate a team owner, in much the same way as Mosley attempted to humiliate Jackie Stewart recently. Of course it's more complex than that with all that has been going on this season, but that's at its core.

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Buzz apparently there was an invitation, as reported earlier today.
It has been conveniently over looked on this forum however! It is the FIA that decided to make an official one. I'm not sure if this Hombre is on official FIA business.

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And that's where it should have ended. Ron Dennis had no need to extend such an invitation in response to accusations of inequality within the team, but he did. Why the FIA were invited to get involved, or took it upon themselves to get involved only Max knows for sure.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I believe Alonso, Montoya and DC and not Ron Dennis. What FIA did is unpopular, but right.

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Funny how two of those three left McLaren without a title to their name, and the other may do the same. "Favouritism", among other things, is a familiar cry of a defeated driver who does not want to admit his team-mate did a better job. And I say that as an admirer of all three of those drivers.

The practicalities of what the inspector will be doing, and under which FIA rule simply makes me laugh.

Finally, we know know that if a driver or even the media raise a question of favouritism within a team in future then the FIA inspectors will be sent in. Yeah right, or course they will. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Sabotaging a driver during championship battle is unacceptable.

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Attempting to blackmail your boss in order to get preferential treatment is unacceptable. Let's not forget that if FA had kept his trap shut the chances are this situation would not be happening. Regardless of whether or not RD invited the FIA to send this chap along, making it public only adds fire to all the conspiracy theories that are floating around - this thread is evidence enough of that. Personally I think the FIA need to take a good long look at how they've handled this whole affair.

Maybe FIA should take full responsibilty of Alonso's car. Surely FIA's own mechanics would be impartial enough to give him a chance to win, why not put Alonso in his own, seperate garage safe sabotage if McLaren isn't to be trusted. ;)

Better still. Why don't the FIA cancel the Brazilian GP and meet in Paris to decide who they want to win the WDC. Of course they could invite the heads of certain motorsport federations to help them decide.

It seems to me that the 5 grid place penalty the FIA gave Alonso in Hungary was none of the FIA's business. I know Ron Dennis has invited a Spanish FIA rep to Brazil himself but this is presumably due to the fact that the FIA said they would penalise Mclaren if they felt Alonso was being mistreated.

Is this really in the power of the FIA or ias this Moseley being a facist ?

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Originally Posted by seppefan

It seems to me that the 5 grid place penalty the FIA gave Alonso in Hungary was none of the FIA's business. I know Ron Dennis has invited a Spanish FIA rep to Brazil himself but this is presumably due to the fact that the FIA said they would penalise Mclaren if they felt Alonso was being mistreated.

Is this really in the power of the FIA or ias this Moseley being a facist ?

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Would you like to enlarge on this discussion please, as this is rather cryptic right now. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Would you like to enlarge on this discussion please, as this is rather cryptic right now. Thanks.

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Does the FIA really have the power to become involved in the various teams to the extent they are this season?

The situation in Hungary was an inter team scenario, nothing to do with the FIA and yet they became involved. Is that because Moseley sees it as his right, does the FIA really have this kind of power? which in my book is over the top and miss placed

I dont see how one FIA official, would probably doesn`t understand a thing about mechanics could really notice any wrong doing... I think its just a `show` to make people believe that there will be fairness, and a way for McLaren to cover their backs when they cheat by saying that they had someone looking !

The FIA and McLaren have clearly shown that they want Hamilton champion and McLaren are proven cheaters, so I dont believe poor Alonso will get treated fairly to be honest.

The british press has done all it can to make Alonso look like a coward and Hamilton into a little angel. Its all part of the `Lewis Hamilton Show`.

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Originally Posted by Ari

There's a saying of old "where there's smoke, there's fire".

Ron went on last week to discuss how it was US vs HIM re LH and FA.

It doesn't surprise me that the FIA have appointed someone to overlook the whole thing for the final round.

Honestly, I reckon FA would probably get a fairer run and some more love from the Ferrari pit in the final round.

I just find it hilarious that people here are still trying to convince themselves there's nothing happening. What a bunch of f***ing sheep some of you are!!!!

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Baaaaaa, I don't know what you mean, Baaaaaaaa

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Originally Posted by Ari

There's a saying of old "where there's smoke, there's fire".

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Especially when the FIA are working the smoke machine!

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Originally Posted by fandango

(And Dave, Irvine is officially British)

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Gee, thanks for reminding us....

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Originally Posted by seppefan

Does the FIA really have the power to become involved in the various teams to the extent they are this season?

The situation in Hungary was an inter team scenario, nothing to do with the FIA and yet they became involved. Is that because Moseley sees it as his right, does the FIA really have this kind of power? which in my book is over the top and miss placed

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I think when Alonso stopped for those extra 10 seconds to block Lewis, it went further than being a team scenario. However, we have had a very long discussion on this point, so I see little point in dwelling on it now.

But I will agree with Arrows above that the FIA appear to be buggering up an outstanding season this year by going into such antics. I sincerely hope that Vettel takes Alonso out and thus end this conspiracy nonsense.

I think that between the FIA and Alonso`s constant whinging this season has been turned into a joke. For years while Schumacher was at Ferrari he was given number one status and many races were blatantly "fixed" in his favour as far back as when Eddie Irvine was his team mate. Did the FIA ever appoint an independant scrutineer in the Ferrari garge to ensure no bias toward Schumacher? I think not.. Does this now mean that Massa will complain also to the FIA about Kimi`s number one staus and get his contract torn up??
It`s about time Alonso stopped moaning. He is the current world champion that does not give him an automatic right to number one staus within the team, he knew this when he signed the contract. His problem is that he probably thought that he could easily out race Lewis, but Lewis has taken the race to him and got the upper hand. If you want to be number one then prove it where it counts most, not moan your way to the title....

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Better still. Why don't the FIA cancel the Brazilian GP and meet in Paris to decide who they want to win the WDC. Of course they could invite the heads of certain motorsport federations to help them decide.

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We all know who is the preferred one in that case, enough to red Bernie's comments.

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Originally Posted by ioan

We all know who is the preferred one in that case, enough to red Bernie's comments.

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As much as the FIA, this (sorry, but) pathetic blathering on about how Hamilton is being "favoured" is beyond laughable.

The internet is a wonderful thing, but it does allow any old rubbish to be aired at times. Once it's been aired, it's discussed and debated, even as if it were fact sometimes. It's not.

If Lewis Hamilton wins the WDC this year it will be 1) a remarkable achievement for a rookie 2) deserved, and 3) hard fought for against a 2xWDC driving the same car. It will not be because an FIA official decided on the outcome.

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Originally Posted by ioan

We all know who is the preferred one in that case, enough to red Bernie's comments.

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Is that a clue Ioan?

Just when i thought i was the only cazy nut case paranoid... whatever, drinking too much of my own kool aid, i wake this morning to find all this:

My oh my

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Better still. Why don't the FIA cancel the Brazilian GP and meet in Paris to decide who they want to win the WDC. Of course they could invite the heads of certain motorsport federations to help them decide.

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Opps...there you go, careful :D :D

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Especially when the FIA are working the smoke machine!

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SO deep down inside, the kool aid has failed to leave you completely blinded, and you seem to see the truth :D

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Gee, thanks for reminding us....

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Originally Posted by ioan

We all know who is the preferred one in that case, enough to red Bernie's comments.

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You mean read....??? Like all those interviews and off the cuff coments since Australia??

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Originally Posted by Enchanter

This way RD can restore his "integrity", as, IF LH beats FA, he can claim it was done without interfering with FA in any way, hence the "legendary" equality.

Of course there is enough time to subtly "tweak" FA's car in the run up to the race on Sunday, and surely, the FIA delegate would require a working knowledge of the McLaren teams engineering / operations in order to detect anything foul?

I was also under the impression that said FIA delegate was there at RD's invitation, and not in an official FIA capacity??

Cheers,

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Of course, that is why i wondered just what some 'official" would be looking or doing anyway....

Apparently there will now be two, the Spanard and the appointed or annoited "special Scrutineer" (which is why Max called me yesterday...as I reported earlier) :D No doubt he will be a proper brit who knows what to do to take care of "the good of the sport"....

(Funny thing is I think that Feddie might get the WDC, but what he deserves is a felony conviction for blackmail, assuming what RD said is only half-true..but that would be off topic)

However, to parphrase a certain movie....Just when I thought it could not really get any weirder than what my own "sicko" imagination could produce after mucho smoking and thought no one could beat old markabilly in the insanity race (please see http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...d.php?t=121959), well,


"I give you the FIA""


Thanks to maxie and the FIA, I know now that I am not alone...... :beer:

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

If Lewis Hamilton wins the WDC this year it will be 1) a remarkable achievement for a rookie 2) deserved, and 3) hard fought for against a 2xWDC driving the same car. It will not be because an FIA official decided on the outcome.

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I agree with that. However, I think that equality sometimes needs pro-active bias to be really equal. Back in the days of Hakkinen and Coulthard at McLaren, there was that famous time when DC moved over to let Hakkinen win in Australia. While the team then maintained equality, I think DC often felt that the imbalance of the Aus GP was never rectified, mostly due to Hakkinen being in with a chance of the title. So is that equal treatment?

Now, people are quick to draw conclusions about Alonso's so called blackmailing of his team. They condemn him for threatening to do something, which we've all done in heated moments. But we don't know exactly what Alonso wanted, and my own belief is that he wanted things re-balanced properly after he was the one who lost out due to Hamilton's disobeying of team orders.

I reckon Alonso probably is as mad and paranoid as people say, but that doesn't make him a villain, and ultimately the responsibility lies with Ron Dennis for allowing things to get out of hand. I'm sure Alonso suffered at the start of the season when he saw Hamilton's pace, but it was at Monaco that this all went silly, when Hamilton was supposedly held back.