WRC2 / WRC3 News & Rumours 2022

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Originally Posted by Danny0405

After a 1st Rally, the new championship system for Rally2 seems better even if some things can be improved: the Junior and Masters championships does not mess up the global understanding. Could seem a little complex at the beginning but the comparison is clearer I think.

Some points could be improved:

- the Junior eligibility rule is a little too tricky in my opinion: I’m not sure comparing Gryazin or Bulacia (both 25th start in a R5/Rally2 in WRC and more than 20 in ERC for the Russian) with Cais (2nd WRC event and 12 ERC R5 event) and Munster (8th WRC event and 8 ERC R5 event) is totally fair. And, for example, Rossel has only 16 R5/Rally2 WRC évent (and no ERC) in career and he cannot participate, even if a little older; the same for Huttunen. But it’s always difficult to find a good rule to and, still, it gives an acceptable level of competition for the category with also Lindholm and Lopez to come and maybe others.

- the power stages point rules should be the same for all the championships, here is too specific (a rule for WRC, another for WRC2 and no point for the rest). Or at least the same for all which is not WRC.


Two things are quite useless but, as it has no effect on the global championship, never mind;

- the Masters thing, okay it helped to attract some drivers but I’m not sure it’s coherent with the development of WRC-3 championship and Rally3

- The team championship is useless (last year is a good evidence with Movisport win) but still, okay, it gives some visibility to a team such as Toksport so not really an issue. But, as Toksport is the only real team to play the game, the interest is really limited.



About Rally3, I’m still skeptical: as there is no young big names or good references and that this car is still below Rally2 level, it is really difficult to know what is the value of this championship; and when he wins the class, is he good or the others bad? And does his gap with Rally2 good or not? It was already the case in Rally4 to be honest but the difference was that there were more cars to compare and it was less expensive. So I’m not sure this more expensive solution is a good thing. Let’s hope it can succeed but I’m not sure of the principle.
The only positive is that it should help to have a very good high-level Junior championship in Rally4 in ERC as they cannot make WRC anymore.

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I agree with you in most points but wanted to add:

Most likely there will be WRC2Teams from Hyundai and Msport also, but it still pretty useless Cup.

I think they are aiming to get drivers do WRC3 before WRC2, that way WRC2J drivers have more WRC starts

WRC3J/JWRC starts in Sweden, that should make WRC3 pretty interesting serie.

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Originally Posted by Danny0405

About Rally3, I’m still skeptical: as there is no young big names or good references and that this car is still below Rally2 level, it is really difficult to know what is the value of this championship; and when he wins the class, is he good or the others bad? And does his gap with Rally2 good or not? It was already the case in Rally4 to be honest but the difference was that there were more cars to compare and it was less expensive. So I’m not sure this more expensive solution is a good thing. Let’s hope it can succeed but I’m not sure of the principle.

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There shouldn't really be big names entering WRC3, only exiting it as it's a privateer or proving ground. It's early days yet, the championships need to exist first to allow people to adjust.

I might sigh though if there are more JWRC entries than open entries on non-JWRC rounds. I will definitely laugh if it's non-Junior Pajari who can't fail to podium every round to become Open Champion but not Junior Champion but I've said enough about that in the JWRC thread.

One question for those who know it:
What is the point of creating fake WRC-2 teams for the team championship?

Toksport is a true team, they prepare their own cars so it’s okay and it gives them some visibility even if they have to pay 10k€ registration fees.

For M-Sport, clearly, some of the drivers used in the championship teams are only clients (Prokop last year, Adielsson in next Swedish rally) but I could understand as the entry fees are free for them for the WRC-2 team championship (As a Rally1 manufacturer). All the more than the car is effectively prepared by M-Sport.

But I don’t really understand a fake team like Movisport last year or Yacco ACCR team in Monte Carlo (probably a team around Cais only with some local Yacco-supported drivers from other teams as a supporting cast). Don’t really mind but I don’t really understand what is the model for paying 10k€ registration fee: I don’t see anything about the prize money; the visibility is low, neither it seems to lower the driver registration fees.
So quite surprised.

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Originally Posted by Danny0405

- the Junior eligibility rule is a little too tricky in my opinion: I’m not sure comparing Gryazin or Bulacia (both 25th start in a R5/Rally2 in WRC and more than 20 in ERC for the Russian) with Cais (2nd WRC event and 12 ERC R5 event) and Munster (8th WRC event and 8 ERC R5 event) is totally fair.

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I think Erik is perfectly OK with being compared to them because that's why he is there in the first place ;)

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Originally Posted by Danny0405

But I don’t really understand a fake team like Movisport last year or Yacco ACCR team in Monte Carlo (probably a team around Cais only with some local Yacco-supported drivers from other teams as a supporting cast). Don’t really mind but I don’t really understand what is the model for paying 10k€ registration fee: I don’t see anything about the prize money; the visibility is low, neither it seems to lower the driver registration fees.
So quite surprised.

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It is probably more important for the sponsors than we think. At least with Yacco ACCR it's one of the highlights of the post-RMC press release after all.

Don't know if it was posted here already. Kristensson was testing with Kowax team. Will he replace Huttunen?

Very good question Danny, it's also run through my head. Yacco makes sense if they get advertising out of it, their name will be documented forever and might get some links out of it and other things.

But please allow me to hijack your question and pitch a WRC3 Team to the forums and maybe find out what's in it for the likes of Movisport this way. Printsport might show up but M-Sport just shouldn't and Brazolli didn't go with Movisport in Monte. Not sure who else there is or would be(?). We just need €10,000 and a willing driver/s who is already competing (we can bribe them with a set of tyres ;)). The money can be from your savings or some tax avoidance stuff, it doesn't matter to me. Is there anything else?

Benefits are: team passes at rallies that you were going to pay for tickets at anyway, huge trophies to impress the neighbours with, rub shoulders with motorsport elite at the Gala Ball, then also any secret prize money! Who wants to be World Rally Champions with me?

This is taken from wrc.com, is the junior class rules changed?

How does the WRC2 Open Championship work?

Every round of the WRC season features WRC2, but drivers and co-drivers can only nominate seven scoring rounds. Their best six results count.Are there other classes within WRC2?

Yes. Drivers and co-drivers under the age of 30 are eligible for the WRC2 Junior Championship. At the other end of the spectrum, drivers and co-drivers over the age of 50 are eligible for the WRC Masters Cup.

Don’t think so; I think the text here is more a sort a summary for newcomers of the general idea without entering into much details: it is why the other rules are not mentionned

Østberg is not doing sweden, thats the first time in his entire carriere.

He are supposedly in discusions with 2 teams, one of them is Citröen, and a other team he didn't want to say.
First rally is croatia he aims.
Both Hyundai and M-sport need his help with theire Rally2's.

Veiby is doing sweden in a KMS Polo R5, so the Hyundai adventure is over i presume.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by skarderud

Both Hyundai and M-sport need his help with theire Rally2's.

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Sorry... what? These teams need Mads' help with their cars? Help to do what, make them worse?

We're talking about this Mads Østberg, right? https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ostbe...-after-issues/

Ok, he might have learned from those mistakes, but would you give that sort of responsibility to someone who has openly admitted to making errors in development of a car? It's not really a glowing recommendation...

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Originally Posted by ouvreur

Sorry... what? These teams need Mads' help with their cars? Help to do what, make them worse?

We're talking about this Mads Østberg, right? https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ostbe...-after-issues/

Ok, he might have learned from those mistakes, but would you give that sort of responsibility to someone who has openly admitted to making errors in development of a car? It's not really a glowing recommendation...

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is also the same guy that brought a quite crappy c3 nearly to a fabia level...

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Originally Posted by ouvreur

Sorry... what? These teams need Mads' help with their cars? Help to do what, make them worse?

We're talking about this Mads Østberg, right? https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ostbe...-after-issues/

Ok, he might have learned from those mistakes, but would you give that sort of responsibility to someone who has openly admitted to making errors in development of a car? It's not really a glowing recommendation...

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He is a good developmentdriver, and obviusly learning by his mistakes.
The C3 is a good car these days.

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Hearing from various sources that Hyundai's and Suninen's WRC2 season starts from Portugal

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

But please allow me to hijack your question and pitch a WRC3 Team to the forums and maybe find out what's in it for the likes of Movisport this way (...) -
Who wants to be World Rally Champions with me?

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Haha This was so good. I honestly dont understand why someone would put money into motorsport for the Return of Investment. I mean, suuure, Heiniken gets a decent propaganda in F1 and can absolutely reach more eyeballs. Other than that, I still find hard to understand. I think its more about "ok, let me invest in something Im passioned about". I'd not put money into a rally car :/ ...but -IF I HAD THE CASH, OC- I'd love to support a super buggy in the FIA euro autocross haha or a 450cc bike in American Flack Track championship (the singles class, not the harleys and indians). It was interesting to think about that. Maybe its where our actual favorite motorsport is. It pops out and say "Yeah, its me, not wrc!". Great post mate.

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Originally Posted by Danny0405

One question for those who know it:
What is the point of creating fake WRC-2 teams for the team championship?

Toksport is a true team, they prepare their own cars so it’s okay and it gives them some visibility even if they have to pay 10k€ registration fees.

For M-Sport, clearly, some of the drivers used in the championship teams are only clients (Prokop last year, Adielsson in next Swedish rally) but I could understand as the entry fees are free for them for the WRC-2 team championship (As a Rally1 manufacturer). All the more than the car is effectively prepared by M-Sport.

But I don’t really understand a fake team like Movisport last year or Yacco ACCR team in Monte Carlo (probably a team around Cais only with some local Yacco-supported drivers from other teams as a supporting cast). Don’t really mind but I don’t really understand what is the model for paying 10k€ registration fee: I don’t see anything about the prize money; the visibility is low, neither it seems to lower the driver registration fees.
So quite surprised.

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There are few things why to use it. Last year you cannot use as competitors name anything else than name of driver, if you are not registered to teams championship. This has changed only for this year and on very last moment, when most of entries to Monte were done. Also in the past it was enough to make team registration and you can nominate drivers without any additional payment to WRC2 drivers, this is also gone. And of course, sometimes sponsors likes if their name is mentioned in the name of competitor.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Benefits are: team passes at rallies that you were going to pay for tickets at anyway, huge trophies to impress the neighbours with, rub shoulders with motorsport elite at the Gala Ball, then also any secret prize money! Who wants to be World Rally Champions with me?

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No more team passes (currently not decided if you enter as team or not, but you can choose two different versions of entries according to your service dimensions and team passes numbers, of course with different price). In Monte no trophy for teams championship (and also not for juniors). Also not invitation to the Gala in Monte (but in the end of season I think it will be). And for sure no prize money :)

Test Teemu Suninen | Hyundai i20 N Rally2 | Pre WRC Season 2022

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HZotRrPa8Q

Next round for Erik Cais is Croatia.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Hearing from various sources that Hyundai's and Suninen's WRC2 season starts from Portugal

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Quite logical even if he wins Croatia last year, Hyundai has so much to do with both Rally1 and Rally2 cars so they have to focus and probably easier to focus on gravel with the series of gravel rallies to come

About Ostberg, as said before by other members, he brings Citroen car from a still developing car to something probably equal to Skoda now (don’t forget Skoda won none of the 3 Big Rally2 titles in 2020 and they had to hire Mikkelsen to win titles in 2021).
So he is interesting for any team who has a car to develop: however, Hyundai already has Suninen who is also a fast gravel/snow driver, even if with much less experience.
And M-Sport has Huttunen + doesn’t have a big list of drivers according to Millener for WRC-2.

Logical for Cais to do the 4 European tarmac rallies (I include MC and the TBD) considering his profile. Don’t know for Japan, maybe a reserve round as his team is in the team championship (the 7th round, if made, must be Non-European for team championship); but Kenya may be cheaper. Portugal would sound logical with his experience (one or 2 gravel rallies there in the past) all the more with two gravel events there in the ERC in March.

so in WRC3 you can drive only in WRC3J and not for WRC3Open (Junior has 8 entries in Sweden, Open only 4)
is that same allowed in WRC2 also ?
That way driver could drive for some points in every rally.



RallyGuide2 for Sweden says it's part of WRC3 Teams championship, 0 entries according to entry list ... (no WRC3T marked to any)

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Originally Posted by pantealex

so in WRC3 you can drive only in WRC3J and not for WRC3Open (Junior has 8 entries in Sweden, Open only 4)
is that same allowed in WRC2 also ?
That way driver could drive for some points in every rally.

RallyGuide2 for Sweden says it's part of WRC3 Teams championship, 0 entries according to entry list ... (no WRC3T marked to any)

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You cannot do WRC2 Junior and not WRC2 Open.

It looks like you can do WRC3 Junior and not WRC3 Open. For me this is strange (or maybe better to say crazy).

WRC3 Teams championship is brand new thing, almost nobody expected it before. And in fact, it is mainly waste of money...

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Originally Posted by PLuto

You cannot do WRC2 Junior and not WRC2 Open.

It looks like you can do WRC3 Junior and not WRC3 Open. For me this is strange (or maybe better to say crazy).

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The perspective is a little bit different between WRC-2 and WRC-3 Junior as you can choose completely your calendar in WRC-2J whereas the calendar is fixed in WRC-3J
Still, I agree the situation is not good: the entries in WRC-3J should automatically be registered in Open with free entry fees.

Automatic enrolment doesn't help sell JWRC3J, thus the exception, I was wondering if the Juniors doing WRC3 Open plan to do off-Junior rounds. Pajari has already won Monte; Joona Finland (?), Mcrae Kenya (?), Creighton needs Open for WRC3 Teams (?)?

Maybe Open doesn't come for free, I saw Jon Armstrong appealing for funding recently, if he is doing another round(s) he is fine for funding. If WRC3 Open was free he would have done it here. The Greek and Estonian entries include home events so is the same case.

Anyway, I'm glad you guys are either confused or disapproving, and it's not just me. Another little input of craziness is M-Sport and WRC seem to be sticking with JWRC branding yet you don't find those 4 letters even once in the FIA regs.

Franceschi will not start Sweden.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pajar...ior-wrc-crown/

Jos Verstappen, father of Max, plans to start in selected rounds with C3 Rally2.

In WRC2, interesting? I read that he will run two events of the BRC (Belgium)

In WRC2, interesting? I read that he will run two events of the BRC (Belgium)

Nobre (Skoda Fabia rally2 - Motorsport Italia) at the start of selected events

News regarding Verstappen was like "maybe also WRC2 starts"

He will do rallies in Belgium, The Netherlands and the WRC. He bought 3 C3's + 1 Fabia (rumoured). Tested several times already, so I think he will be driving a lot.

Gabriele Campagnoli start in Sardegna and Acropolis with Hyundai I20 rally2 by G.B. Motors

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Originally Posted by dupanton

He will do rallies in Belgium, The Netherlands and the WRC. He bought 3 C3's + 1 Fabia (rumoured). Tested several times already, so I think he will be driving a lot.

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Is it known what suddenly got Jos so heavily invested (in every sense) into rallying at this point in his life? Going by ewrc, it doesn't even look like he's dabbled in it in the past. I suppose the family aren't short of money nowadays though, so why not?! :D

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Originally Posted by the sniper

Is it known what suddenly got Jos so heavily invested (in every sense) into rallying at this point in his life? Going by ewrc, it doesn't even look like he's dabbled in it in the past. I suppose the family aren't short of money nowadays though, so why not?! :D

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Not a clue, but I'm curious to see how he will get on.

Are there huuge diferences in the costs/budget when you compare running ERC vs WRC2 (only european rounds)?

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Originally Posted by lmmjvss

Are there huuge diferences in the costs/budget when you compare running ERC vs WRC2 (only european rounds)?

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ERC rallies are shorter.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

ERC rallies are shorter.

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Shorter mileage is not the most important thing for the lower budget. It is also about other rules and payments around. Lets say that with R5 in general in one ERC race is 2/3 of WRC budget. In the past it was better, now it is also more expensive in ERC. And we will see what will happen now with new promoter...

Does ERC also use the new "synthetic/electric/bio" fuel as WRC2 does?

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Does ERC also use the new "synthetic/electric/bio" fuel as WRC2 does?

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Thanks god not. This fuel in WRC is disaster...

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Originally Posted by PLuto

Thanks god not. This fuel in WRC is disaster...

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whats the problems with this fuel?

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Originally Posted by PLuto

Thanks god not. This fuel in WRC is disaster...

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For real? I know no details haha Thought everyone was happy with that tbh but I dont know anything about price and performance. If theres any links, please share! Its an interesting topic but I have not read about it

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Originally Posted by PLuto

Thanks god not. This fuel in WRC is disaster...

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Really? Why?