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It was a amazing run by Hamilton. He does owe Bottas a six-pack for sucking and crashing out and making it possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
What so amazing is Bottos was sitting at 10th and could not work through the crowd, but Hamilton just made it look so easy.
Winners
1. Verstappen - great start to take control of the race
2. Hamilton - amazing recovery drive
3. Norris
4. Ferrari
Losers
1. Bottas - looks like he is pulling a Vettel.
2. Perez - just when it looked like he was turning the corner, had a terrible finish and didn't even finish in the points. The mental and physical mistakes galore. He will now face 2 weeks of questions and excuses.
3. Former Champions
4. Russell - he had a chance to get Williams some points until him and Bottas came together.
Things that Make you go hmmm...
1. Alpha Tauri strategy call with Gasly tires to start. And they kept doubling down.
2. Yuki - what a head scratcher, was on a amazing makeup drive and then lost it.
3. Ricardo - decent finish, but is so far off Norris pace.
I can’t see Bottas seeing the season out in a Mercedes on current form.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1nKS
I don't think he has any excuse really. Hamilton was mugged by the Redbulls because Bottas was no there to interfere. Very tricky race, l thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Not really, it was Russell's fault. Bottas gave him plenty of space but Russell dipped his tyres on the grass which caused him to spin into Bottas.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Very rare but yep, Hamilton dropped the ball but recovered very well to 2nd. This is going to be a cracking season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Well said. Norris is showing his star quality this season. Ricciado was comprehensively beaten by his younger team mate.
There was an initial rightward movement by Bottas in a half attempt to defend. But he left a car's width for Russell's Williams. Russell seemed to me to have panicked and moved too far rightwards which put his tyres on the grass. I don't think it is Bottas' fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Toto Woolf has a blind spot when it comes to Bottas. If he were in another team, he would have been sent packing two seasons back.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
The chink in Mercedes' armour is their crappy pitstops. Two in a row suggest they have the crappiest crew in the top end of the grid.
Interesting race again, and quite a bit of action considering the circuit.
Blazing start by Max. He took the straight line, got a great bite and drive off the line, and forced Lewis wide when he had the chance. Lewis was fortunate to not have more damage, as were several others over the day when bouncing over those curbs.
Great recovery drive by Lewis, though the Bottas/Russell incident and sheer luck played a big part in his final position. In any case he still would have got his way back well into the points most likely, and recovered well after his escape following the off. Great effort to regain the podium and fast lap.
Great to see Lando retain the podium after a tire choice call I questioned at the time. But I do think that the track limits issue should have been brought up again. Lando consistently went four wheels off, as did several other drivers on a couple of corners. Tsunoda got a penalty, but was the only one. I personally think track limits should apply on all corners, all the time. In this case it might have determined if Lando got past Leclerc or not, but in any case there is always an advantage to be gained. Of the rest of the front runners, a couple of them might have called it close or went four wheels off barely.... once or twice that I saw.
Good results for both Mclaren and Ferrari. I'm sure that was welcomed from both teams.
Russell had that car up in the points until the off, not easy to do in the Williams.
Alonso scores a point after Kimi is handed a 30 second penalty... rather harsh IMO given the circumstances.
Losers of the race.... well just as many.
Perez really blew it several time. He should have easily had that car in the points, especially considering starting position. With all fairness with limited testing he is still getting used to the car, but the repass after sliding off during the safety car was a rookie mistake by both him, as well as the team, for not giving the positions back.
Tsunoda. Well, not a great day after all the good driving he did to mess up enough to nullify it all.
Bottas. Bad weekend all around, and I think he was the major factor in the off with himself and Russell. That would have been questionable in the dry, but in those conditions was unsafe IMHO.
Mayspin... did spin. But in all fairness has now been involved in an incident where it wasn't his fault.
With only 7 points between constructors, and 1 point in the WDC, it could be an interesting season. Lewis and Max might be after each other for a while, but I still say the bigger deciding factors in the constructors this year will be Bottas and Perez. They both blew it today, with Bottas being worse overall. But zero points contribution from either driver this race is just horrid.
I think after "Rosberg", Toto is just happy to not have the drama. For the most part, Bottas does what they need him to do - run interference for Hamilton and score enough points so they win the constructors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
Russells fault for me too. I initially blamed Bottas but after looking at the incident analysis on YT again.. Russell with his DRS open and going off the dry line into the wet it looks like he actually spun up his rear tyres before he hit the grass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
It was just overly ambitious by George Imo. He talked about this unwritten Gentlemens agreement not to defend because its wet? Nah, Come on, that's not very realistic. I can see why he went for it but in these one line conditions it was not really on.
The old men, all almost out of the points. I think the nostalgia factor has worn off for Vettel, Alonso, and Raikkonen (I know Vettel isn't that old but he is driving like it).
For someone looking for a Mercedes seat in the future, he did Mercedes no favours this weekend. Firstly he got Hamilton to slide on to the grass as he refused to yield the racing line under blue flags, forcing Hamilton to overtake on the wet during a crucial lap to catch Verstappen, causing damage to his front wing. Then crashing into Bottas, in what should have been a surgical overtake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
Imola is a bogey track for Russell. This time around, it has only served to show Mercedes that he is not ready for the senior seat. Mercedes passed over Wehrlien and Ocon for much less.
I get that, but they also want someone close to Hamilton and consistent. This season, those attributes are what really matters to fight off Redbull.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1nKS
And that may end what you call a "Toto blind spot"Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
the sad thing was as Hamilton was pulling into the pit stop, i knew they were going to somehow mess it up. It seems to be expected these days that they will botch up one car or the other, or both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
In this case it probably cost Hamilton the lead. His pit stop was over 4secs, while Verstappen was 2.2, and LH pulled out a nice gap as well in his hammertime lap.
Eh, it is what it is, and his eagerness to overtake the lapped cars eventually cost him, and he kinda finished were i thought he was going to finish anyway, lol.
fair point, but to me the onboards show bottas make his one move to the left to cover the inside, then he jinked to the right as Russell was already along side and in the process of overtaking him. mind you, with much greater speed. TBH I believe Russell when he said, any other driver and Bottas would not have made that move. ultimately it cost them both and that is the worst possible outcome. Bottas excuse also doesn't hold up IMO. Russell was overtaking him and he knew that probably 2 corners ago already. Just didn't want to be passed by the Williams and Russell. In comparison, Hamilton fought with both sainz, leclerc and Norris to try and make that pass on the very same section, with multiple attempts to pass on the outside and all 3 of those drivers defended properly without swerving to the right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
I agree with both TBK and your assessment. On the one hand, i do believe that Bottas is probably on very thin ice with Mercedes. but the guy is still quick, relatively speaking, and capable of winning races. But yeah, Days like yesterday, makes one question if there isn't a better option for that seat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
And yes, Toto does seem to have a soft spot for Bottas. Probably more to do with the fact that things have worked out pretty well for the team in the past 4 years with this current driver partnership, so you might as well continue with it until it all falls apart. Either way, I think this will be Bottas last year with the team and he is auditioning for Aston Martin, Williams and Sauber seat. So far his is not giving any of them a reason to pick him up.
I think Kimi drove a superb race. He also had a dynamite start and in the end p9 was taken away by a harsh penalty that had nothing to do with his driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by N. Jones
Alonso will get up to speed and probably understands how 2 years away from F1 requires some time to adjust back. Also, the alpine is a bit twitchy.
Vettel, on the other hand is probably cooked IMO. This should be his last year.
That might change if it is going to cost them the championship. He has been worse this year than previous years. I wouldn't be surprised if he went the entire season without a win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
It's not really a case of whether he left a cars width from Russell, it's a case of whether he should have made that rightward movement to begin with. Okay, nothing in the rules against it but we all know that a right movement like that at 300km/h is not on. It's threatening another drive effectively with a crash if he doesn't back out. It's what Ayrton used to do in the day and Schumacher as well did it. Give the person a choice to back out or crash. There is an agreement between drivers not to do this anymore today and that is why I place more blame at the feet of Bottas. Yes, it spooked Russell but he was only spooked by Bottas unexpected movement. We saw probably a couple of dozen overtaking opportunities at that corner during the race without any other drivers making that movement because they kept to the agreements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
Bottas tried to startle russel by suddenly moving towards him, and it worked.
That was a stupid move, something i would expect from mazepin, not from someone as experienced as bottas.
If you read the stewards report on the matter, they indicated that the track narrowed as both drivers approached a kink. Bottas traced the left edge of the track which made him move to the right. His steering wheel showed him turning leftwards. He did not take any action that was out of the ordinary. Most importantly, he left a car's width for Russell.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
They called it a racing incident. It is simple, Russell panicked, gave Bottas a wide berth and dipped his rear on the wet grass. which spun the car into Bottas. Bottas was definitely not at fault at all.
I re-watched it last night and even rode along with each driver. Unfortunately Bottas view was not from where you could see his hands, but this is what I saw.
1. Bottas drifted to the right. I did not see a jerk or anything. He seemed to be just doing a Sunday drive through the Italian countryside not paying attention to anything around him feeling sorry for himself about how bad his drive was going.
2. Russell felt Bottas drifting and overcorrected, and lost it. There was ample amount of room on his left between him and Bottas. He made a mistake and it became a racing incident.
I am somewhat mystified what Russell endgame is by doubling and tripling down on this. Is he just wanting to keep everybody eye on Bottas and to get them to ask why Bottas was even down where a Williams is squabbling with him? He doesn't come off well either.
It was regrettable that he made that statement. Because he has shown a side that did not impress Mercedes. As it went, the stewards did not find any evidence that Bottas acted in any way dishonourable. Besides, that is not the sort of thing that Bottas would do. He is not that sort of driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Just as I write that, Russell releases a statementQuote:
Originally Posted by F1nKS
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ru...ttas-/6350902/Quote:
He said he had to take responsibility for his overtaking move having ended in an accident, and accepted he did not behave in the correct manner afterwards.
“Yesterday wasn't my proudest day,” he said.
“I knew it would be one of our best opportunities to score points this season and, when those points matter as much as they do to us right now, sometimes you take risks.
"It didn't pay off and l have to take responsibility for that.
“Having had time to reflect on what happened afterwards, I know I should have handled the whole situation better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Surprisingly the stewards report on the incident suggests Bottas didn't swerve... even though it looked that way to me initially also.
“The Stewards heard from the driver of Car 63 (George Russell), the driver of Car 77 (Valtteri Bottas) and the team representatives and reviewed multiple angles of video evidence and telemetry.
“Car 63 approached car 77 to pass after the front straight a few laps after the restart when DRS had recently been enabled. Car 77 maintained his line throughout the incident along the right hand side of the dry line, leaving at least a full car’s width to the right at all times.
“Car 63 approached with a significant speed advantage. He moved to pass on the right. As the cars approached the kink of turn 1, the gap between them and the right hand side of the track decreased. At no time did either car manoeuvre erratically.
“The track appeared to be not especially wet through turn 1 but at the point of closest approach to the right hand side of the track, the right hand side tyres of Car 63 hit an especially damp patch and the car snap yawed, bearing in mind that the car had low downforce in the rear with the DRS open.
“The Stewards conclude that the accident was a racing incident considering the conditions and take no further action.”
I guess the difference between a mere squeeze and a jink as Russell saw it, is relative to the closing speed. I can see this one both ways but if the telemetry showed that Bottas didn't do it, I feel they called it correctly.
by pulling his usual over aggressive move and damaging his opponents car.Quote:
Originally Posted by F[b
Without that move Hamilton would have had a fair chance of winning.
Cheers
Daniel
Although bottas in retrospective indeed left enough space, he swerved more to the right than any other car at that point. More than russel could reasonally expect from someone who has no intention to hinder him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
Bottas tried and succeeded into scaring russel. He had every right to do this, since he left the space, so it was indeed a racing incident.
But it still was incredibly stupid from bottas to do this to someone who's already alongside you on a wet track. Either russel passed anyway, or he takes you crashing with him.
I thought it was a shame that Verstappen was so aggressive at the first corner as he has now invited a similar treatment from now on. And Hamilton would definitely give him a good taste of this next time around. He has taken the duel to a place it did not need to go. We are now seeing a bit of the sort of scrapes we saw between Rosberg and Hamilton begin to brew so early in the season between Verstappen and Hamilton, and Verstappen has drawn first blood.Quote:
Originally Posted by daniellouwrens
It was actually a beautiful pincer move by the Red Bulls. Hamilton had to cover Perez and that left the door open to Max who got a great start to get in the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by daniellouwrens
Verstappen then is able to take the racing line and was faster than Hamilton and was able to get ahead. Lewis either had to backoff and let Verstappen to pass or go wide. Lewis chose not to give in and has goes wide over the kerbs and that is where he got his damage.
Regardless of the start, Hamilton still had a good chance to win, but Mercedes is not very good at pit changes. Still Hamilton had a chance, but Hamilton made a mistake and got into much a hurry and lost it - that ended his chance to challenge.
Verstappen better start, less errors, therefore better drive than Hamilton. Winner - Max.
It the same things we see over and over with Lewis, when he gets put under pressure and he get behind he makes overly aggressive moves and he usually screw up somebody else race - this time karma went against him and he screwed up his own drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1nKS
This is my exact view also. This is a WDC fight, its within the rules, the gloves are off, there will be no prisoners taken. I suspect Lewis would have done the exact same as he has done in the past..and will do the same to Max at some point in the next few races. In that event, as long as they steward it the exact same and not punish Lewis for it, its fair play for me.
I hope you take the same view when Hamilton does the same next time round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
Absolutely, however, if its a repeat of his Albon run out onto the grass but not being ahead of last year, don't expect it.
I'm cool with a hard fair fight no matter who comes off worse, as long as they are both treated equally.
We might get to see if Hamilton is really the "sore loser" that Albon called him.
Was it a shame that Hamilton did the same thing to Verstappen at the last race? The only real difference was the run off area vs the curbs, but they both knew that going into the corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrodaze
It's racing, and they are allowed to race, and allowed to take the racing line. It's either allowed or it's not, and at that level I don't think either driver is going to back out when entitled to the line.
Fair point, whatever the case, it is going to be hard racing between the two. How hard, is yet to be seen. I can see this one getting personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
The camera on Bottas' nose is fixed. The footage starts at 27secs. When does he swerve to the right?Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
https://youtu.be/vjdwQDXxrfY?t=27