Historic caused problems also, but I remember Tänak and Ogier having pretty strong words towards the organisers for the unplowed roads. I happened to be on this section and this was far from rallying.
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Historic caused problems also, but I remember Tänak and Ogier having pretty strong words towards the organisers for the unplowed roads. I happened to be on this section and this was far from rallying.
Stupidest comment... comparing unblowed 20cm of snow and gravel rallies.:laugh:
However the stage was unplowed even after Ott and Seb, wasn´t it?
This issue lead to Ogier eventually dropping his starting position after losing so much time due to snow-ploughing.
This has since lead to all sorts of road position tactics.
Latvala mentioned it as well in his comments as third car. Obviously every car cleared the road bit by bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Only on the power stage, and it helped him get points. Ogier then did some other tactics in 2019 when restarting in slushy conditions. This was only to help his teammate Lappi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
6 km less plowed road with 5-10 cms... with these increases we will soon end up to 2 meters of snow and car tunneling trough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakem
On gravel rallies 50 km of cleaning 1-2 cm gravel is standard. Get some perspective.
Yes drivers complain almost all the time. Haven't heard anyone blaming organizers on gravel rallies for it though, just FIA for starting order.
Roads are almost never not plowed for rallying 1-2 hours before the stage start and in that period it can snow a lot. Gravel doesn't fall down from the sky unexpectedly....Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
In Monte 2018 it was also turning warm so for later cars the snow both got cleaned and melted (same in Monza SS11).
Imo it's anything but competitionally uniteresting, it's rallying, conditions change. As long as it's "reasonably" safe it is how it should be. Sometimes you gain on it, sometimes you loose. (in Sweden when it is warm earlier drivers can gain before the ice breaks up for example)
Remember 1996 (?) Tommi protested by stopping before finish on a stage, bcs he had to plow. He was furious over Kenneth Eriksson was second on stage... Smth like that.
Think Tommi was fined for that protest, and upset reporters in Swedish Television.
There always has and also will be issues with starting first in winthery conditions... However Asunmaa and Oliver handled it well last weekend.
No, Mitsubishi had 1-2 at the end of Saturday and they made a team order to freeze competition. Eriksson was leading so he was allowed to win. On the last day Tommi still kept pushing and got the lead back, but made his "protest" at the end of the last stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
mknight I usually like your posts, but now I can't agree...gravel sweeping is not same as an unexceptional snowfall or road plowing mistake. And you can't say no one has ever complained about having to sweep on a gravel rally! And no one has lost 3 minutes on one day due to gravel sweeping, like Breen did on that one stage. However, there's also benefits to being first on the road on a gravel rally, like not having dust or rocks pulled onto the road. And if it is raining, you might have the best position after all. Finally, sudden snowfall can also benefit first starters like in Monte 2017 power stage when the first cars drove a dry stage and the last cars a snow stage. Do I remember correctly that Monza SS11 was stopped for a while, giving Scandola some extra time for the weather to dry?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
You can also look at the Sweden 2018 stage where the plowing error was made https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...2018/?s=161821
Ogier was first on the road, losing 22s
Tänak was second, losing 18s
Latvala was third, losing 7s
all the rest of the drivers were within 4 s, except Meeke who had hit something hidden by the snow.
Meanwhile, Tänak had won SS2 second on the road and Ogier lost only 12 seconds, being actually faster than Meeke and Evans.
Then on the second run after the historic cars Ogier started loosing half a minute per stage.
Drivers will always complain when the conditions are not in their favor.
Before the first car you have the 0, the 00, the 000, the SC and i don't even know how many other cars.
By the time the first rallying car arrives the worst is already gone. Sure, it will get better from there so it still isn't equal, but as long as we can't have all drivers starting at the same time that can't be avoided.
very interesting talk about the driving style for this rally from Aava and our own rally legend Murakas.
they both have been there and said the finns should have very big advantage, they said its basically like Ogier is from Gap and knows MOnte. The roads are very narrow and you cant set your car into "position" before the corners because the snow walls are so hard with this cold that if you do so and the rear hits the wall, then the car just goes straight.
Also the "snowfog" is very bad, they said its worse than regular fog and with lights its just shines againt you and you cant see anything.
Interesting fact is that Katsuta has most experience of current WRC drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Τhierry Neuville says his new co-driver Martijn Wydaeghe will remain alongside him for Arctic Rally Finland, after marking their first World Rally Championship start together with a podium on the Monte Carlo Rally.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/neuvi...-arctic-rally/
Bulacia confirmed on his social media he will be at the start.
Also Mikkelsen will be there. Toksport changed their plans, because it was not originally on their program...Quote:
Originally Posted by Co-driven
Has there any offical announcements regarding spectators? I know previously was quoted on finnish website saying no spectators but anything offical from organiser's?
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
He said so on the press conference yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by rp
That will be quite a challenge imo, Huttunen (if he starts) and Solberg will have lots of advantages there.
Mikkelsen has not driven snow rally in since 2019 and last time he drove snow rally in non-WRC car was 8!!! years ago. (S2000 Fabia on Arctic).
Will surely need some real testing.
Roads will be mix between wide and narrow, narrow ones like you said, like in the tunnel, need to be smooth and precise.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Snow dust might be an issue if it will be very cold, but I think with limited amount of entries organizer is preparing for 3min gaps for top cars, so that should be solved generally.
I'd say Huttunen will not have advantage in Arctic as he has done the event only once, in 2015 with R2 car. And he has not so much snow event experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
He drove Rally Sweden the last few years and won in last year in I20.
And these are his only snow starts on a 4WD, and only snow starts since feb 2017Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
For example Rovanperä and Lindholm have much more snow experience
I don't reckon Sweden 2020 as a snow rally😬. Or let's put it in this way: the drivers who did Sweden 2020 don't have any advantage on snowy Arctic 2021 stages. Conditions and roads are totally different + new Pirelli tyres now!Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
If we speak only Rally2 category drivers Lindholm has good snow experience but he has to change to new tyres. Dark horse on that category will be Teemu Asunmaa who has been developing Pirelli's since last winter.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
No spectators to WRC Arctic Rally https://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/3421352
https://www.rallyfinland.fi/en/info/...by-capitalbox/Quote:
27.1.2021 10:02
AKK Sports, the organizer of Arctic Rally Finland Powered by CapitalBox is happy to provide the first information and deadlines about the FIA World Rally Championship event organized in Rovaniemi from 26th to 28th of February.
Due to the COVID situation, the national protocols and restrictions applied by the government, the event will be run without spectators.
The Publication of the Supplementary Regulations is planned for Monday 1st of February
The closing date of entries will be Monday 8th of February at 18:00
The Rally Guide will be published between the 8th and 10th of February (This information will be confirmed)
The Administrative checks will be organized on Tuesday 23rd of February
The Recce are scheduled on Wednesday 24th and Thursday 25th of February
The Scrutineering will be organized on Thursday 25th of February
Arctic Rally Finland Powered by CapitalBox will be run as a three-day event starting on Friday 26th of February with a shakedown in the morning, and the first special stages of the rally will be driven on Friday evening. The competition continues on Saturday 27th of February with three stages that will all be driven twice in and around the Rovaniemi area.
It will finish on Sunday 28th of February with the rally-closing Power Stage taking place in the afternoon.
The COVID-19 protocols for the teams and medias will be communicated as soon as possible. The organizer is working closely with the Finnish Government, the promotor and the City of Rovaniemi to finalize the guidance and protocols that will be applied to the event.
https://www.foreca.fi/Finland/Rovaniemi/map/lumensyvyys 43cm snow now in Rovaniemi and over 50cm in saturday stages 👍😊
Since next Finnish Championship rally was/is postponed only week after WRC Arctic there will be less local entries
(people have day jobs, way less than week to fully service car)
There could be National classes also, that´s why clerk Kai Tarkiainen asked drivers to send email to him.
Organization wanted to hear what kind of machinery is willing to come and could make classes for those.
Finland set so strict covid-rules, will this rally actually take place?
Please don’t start
France was strict too...
I can't remember the source anymore but I recall reading yesterday or two days ago that they will get the final confirmation from the local authorities next week.
I believe they will make some invitations or similar for foreign people to allow to come for the rally, like it was on some events last year or on Monte.
National classes won't be allowed to participate.
What's the supposed difference in term of roads between Sweden and Arctic Rally? I've read about bigger, harder snowbanks, but what about the roads... tighter, faster?
There were more snow down here than in Rovaniemi for the first event this winter at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
Faster but i feel like they are a bit bland to be honest, not a lot of special places if you know what i mean.
Maybe i will change my mind after the WRC event.
Lima in Sweden right now
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=...05071600779285
From what I've seen the Arctic Rally stages are quite angular, there are long straights and then sudden 90° corners. No jumps like in summer Rally Finland. And you might go in the forest for 30 kilometres without any change in landscape (in summer Rally Finland you have always houses and fields among the stages). The challenge of Arctic Rally has typically been the cold weather, amount of snow and the long stages in complete desert.
There are many fast corners and also corner combinations.
No jumps but many crests.
Not many reference points so pacenotes are the key.
This year WRC come very interesting
Compering to the stages of Rally Sweden, the stages of Arctic Rally are not so technical and twisty.
Stages of the Arctic Rally are completely different compering to Rally Finland stages around the Jyväskylä. All in all, the roads are fast and easier to the co-driver for example, than the stages like Päijälä, Kakaristo and other classics from the gravel rollercoaster of the Central Finland. But it’s not that simple, there is more than meets the eye. There is a one big but: every year you have to do brand new pace notes, if you want to fight for the podium places. You can’t use the old pace notes, because the exact shape of the corners can change a lot depending how much there is snow and how the snowplow driver have done the job. Compering the Arctic Rally and the WRC Arctic Rally Finland there is a big difference in the recce also; In the FRC Arctic Rally there are no restrictions how many times you can drive through the stage during the recce, but in the WRC event it can be done only twice. That makes a really big difference. Like br21 wrote, the pace notes are the key to the success.
There are plenty of fast sections when you’re coming max speed over many crests and fast corners and suddenly there is very tight corner waiting for the victim of poor pace note. There are plenty of exactly the same looking places which can have completely different kind of corner behind the next one. And almost every time after the tight corner there can be a long straight, so the exit speed means a lot. In the Arctic Rally it's a difficult to drive by your eye or memory, because the speed is so high there is no room for mistakes. And like I wrote earlier; a same road can be very different compering to the previous years. If the snowbanks are high there is one thing to remember especially on the narrow roads; when you block the stage by rolling the car on the road or get stuck between the snowbanks, it is very important to get the warning about it as soon as possible. For the next car there is no possibility to avoid the crash without warning on the fast sections, because the next driver can't turn the car away from the road due to the high snowbanks.
Snowbanks are their own chapter. They can be your friend or foe. Ok, they can save you sometimes by keeping your car on the road, if they are hard enough. If they are not hard enough, they can suck your car in to the snowbank faster than you can understand. If the car is stuck on the snowbank, you have to dig all the snow away from under the car at first. Then you can get the tires to touch the ground and get the grip. Army style field shovel is the best tool for that. Normal snow shovel is too big to use under the car. The best solution is to have a normal snow shovel and a military field shovel in the Rally car, then both the driver and the co-driver can dig out the car from the snowbank. It is very important to remember, that every time a car hits a snowbank, you lose time. Especially when you try to maximize your exit speed before a long straight.
One thing has always been nasty in the Arctic Rally: snow dust. If there is no wind at all, it can stay in the air for a very long time. It depends about the temperature and humidity, which is different at the end of February compering to the normal timing of the Arctic Rally, I hope. If there is a threat of snow dust the organizer must have gap of at least 3 minutes between the cars, maybe even more.
Lapland is the reindeer husbandry area also. Those animals normally are moving freely in the area. Before the Arctic Rally the reindeer herders try to collect them away from the area of stages, but there are always couple of rebellion reindeers who wants to go their own paths. And if there is plenty of snow, the reindeers are using roads more than normally which is easy to understand. No one wants to stand in the snow up to their balls, not a man nor a reindeer.
As can be seen there are a few variable factors that made the Arctic Rally Finland as a unique winter event as the World Rally Championship series truly needs.
Fingers crossed and thumbs up for that the event will get the permission from the Finnish authorities. That should be known during the next week.
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc...us-to-finland/
This article says Tänak could have a good starting position following his Monte retirement.
My impression is that the road base won't change much so there's no difference between starting positions, assuming there is no fresh snow (which means the first car does a bit of plowing) or snow dust (which means the first car gets the best visibility).
It will also be interesting to see what happens when someone goes into the snowbank and others can't pass. Hopefully we don't get all stages red flagged.