Printable View
Oreca didn´t homologate any bodywork for Rally2+Kit, only things under the bodywork. So you can use what car brand/model you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Baldi
Biggest problem of Rally2+Kit is price, people are still driving with Impreza/Lancer because of that.
With some brands you could self built Rally4 (R2) car, I expect that similar will happen with Rally3, you don´t have to buy "ready to drive" car.
To be able to compare apples and apples, it would be useful to know the aproximate 2020 prices in Euro for:
N5: ?
Maxi Rally: ?
AP4: ?
Price of R5: Aprox 240 000 Euro
Price of R4: Aprox 180 000 Euro
Price of R3 4wd: 100 000 Euro
Thinking of new car ready to rally, one setup, asphalt or Gravel.
FIA price cap is never the final one. R5 price cap was €180k and they’re sold around €250k; it would'nt be a surprise having Rally3 cars costing over €100k.
If I am not mistaken the price cap for R5 and Rally3 is defined for different level of the car finish. I think that for example the seats and the safety equipment is not part of the cap in R5 but it is part of it in Rally3 etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
It was the new Rally4 car, that will be the basis for their Rally3!
It is too early for presentation of Rally3 car. But currently 3 manufacturers are working on it...
My guess is Peugeot, Renault and Ford.
Back in 1993 I started rallying with a car that I bought with the equivalent of 2600 euros and it was fully according to FIA regulations. This cannot be done with all these extremely expensive R cars that have to be only "manufacturer made".
Also, more important than anything else, drivers like Sebastien Loeb will never get into rallying with the present R regulations. Seb, not being rich at all, started with a cheap Peugeot 106 XSi and immediately got into serious competition with it. If some other Seb wants to start these days, he will never find a way. The "manufacturer made" R cars are extremely expensive for the average young person. For this reason it is necessary that at least one category is left out of this "manufacturer made". But FIA doesn't seem to care.
What are you on about? You don’t have to start rallying in an up to date R class car. Mainly because you wouldn’t want to waste all that money on something you may well crash.
There is nothing about FIA homologated R-class cars that prevents people from starting their rallying competition off (avoiding the the word ‘career’ as that doesn’t really happen until a manufacturer pays you to drive i.e. professionally) in something older and cheaper. The real world isn’t a computer game where your ‘first rally’ is actually a World Rally round in the bottom class of WRC.
To start rallying you need money, to do some National rallies in a cheap car not that mutch, but if you want to get somewhere after you showed potential in a cheap car, you need a R2, and money. To get sponsors you need a car that companies want theire stickers on, noone want that on a old Corsa or a 240 in the far back, maybe if they know you :)
So, quite fast you need an R2, both R1 and R2, pluss this 4wd R2 class, should be possibly been built home with some mandatory parts and some free parts, ofcours with a FIA rollcage from some profesionell builder.
Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
What I am saying is that there should be a lower cost class, in which cars do not have to be "manufacturer made" as present R1 (which is too slow) or R2. Usually older cars are not in categories with much competition, so young drivers do not have the opportunity to improve and show what they can do, with very few exceptions that have rich daddies. The good old cheap N1 and N2, or cheap cups like 106, 206 and Yaris were the best school for young drivers. Both Sebs started in such cheap categories. This is what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSjbg
Perhaps a proposal would be to leave R1 free to all tuners and make this the truly cheap category. Maybe with some cheap alterations on its technical regulations for more speed (e.g. a wilder camshaft is the cheapest way to get power). The rest of Rs are enough for manufacturers. They can leave one R out of their control.
P.S. My rally car was built in 1998, it is wonderful to drive and I do not intend to change it. There is nothing wrong with old cars, except of what I mentioned just before.
It is nice idea, but problem is with normal cars now. There is almost no car in serial production which should be easily used in rallysport...
Many countries have made cheap cup-cars up through history. In Norway we started with Opel Corsa A, and ended up with Impreza. Many have started their hobby and some their international carreer in cups.
Still there are several going on in europe, but as with most things, they have become more expensive as anything else.
Maybe a Dacia Sandero cup could be an option? :-)
Every nation needs a cheap cup as a starter for young talents, and some old farts.
Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
So there we have the first news I have seen that work on the new Rally3 class have started.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Any other news on other manu or tuners have started the engineering on a Rally3 car?
There are three confirmed manufacturers working on rally3 car and one was thinking about it. This is info from the time when this new class was introduced to the regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Who's the 4th? From what I've heard the 3 are those with Rally 4 (or 5) cars: Ford, Peugeot and Renault; apparently Renault may take a while as their main aim is to get the Clio Rally 4 car ready for 2021.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Has anything leaked out on the 4wd system chosen for the Fiesta, or has Fia said anything on tech regs for that system?
Looking forward to som video footage of the testing. To see and hear the car.
Chris Ingram:
"This is a perfect class."
Engine sound is very bad
but it´s "Rally4 4WD" so it sounds like Rally4
Otherwise I like it a lot
Not so bad sound considering its on that section of slow gravel.
there is a thing called gearbox. The engine won't sound different in a fast section.
Sound a bit like an old Gr N car. Makes sense since it is those cars it it suppose to take over from.
Al least in the clip it runs pretty low revs, lets see when we see a clip where it stretches out a bit more!
But this class is just born, and will develop with jokers as Rally2/R5 has done.
Jon Armstrong vid on the Rally3 car:
https://youtu.be/PbW1M9oZtlk
I repeat: Both Rally3 and Rally4(R2T) have same 0,999L 3-zylinder engine so sound will be very much same
just like A- and N-group Mitsu or Subaru sounded very much same.
If you don´t see the car, you can´t say is it Rally3 or Rally4 version...
Isn't the extra weight of the 4WD hardware likely to hamper performance compared to the 2WD version on tarmac ? Or will the extra traction and grip be enough to compensate ?
That’s a good point. On dry tarmac Rally3 cars won’t get a chance against Rally4 cars unless they’ll be allowed to use a wider restrictor. The extra power from a 33 or 34mm air restrictor would compensate the 4wd weight, besides being in line with FIA’s class pyramid purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Btw, as in the top class, the FIA needs to attract more manus to the lower categories: currently there are only 3 brands involved in Rally5/4/3; that’s ridiculously low.
Hard to imagine 1,0l engine which is already making ~215hp to run with much more power and still be reliable...
No idea of how much more power and torque they had but the Fiesta Rally4 (as the ’19 R2) was using a 33mm restrictor until June, when the regs changed it to 30mm. The 208 was also developed having the wider restrictor in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
Anyway, without finding a way of making Rally3 cars competitive on tarmac the FIA risks having another ‘4wd entry class’ fiasco, after the R4 Kit failed attempt.
Renault is using a 4 cyl 1333 ccm engine (R2C) on their Rally5, will they use the same base for their rally4 and rally3 cars?
Or will they go R2B for their Rally3/Rally4?
I don´t know but I´m expecting 1.2TQuote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Is 1,33T even allowed in Rally3/4 ?
No need to change engines as Rally 5/4 (and partially 3) allows the car upgrading, just like in Gr.N/A days; Renault (and hopefully other manus in the future) will sold a Rally4 kit for Rally5 owners. Besides, Rally5/4 turbo engines max capacity is 1333cc (non turbo limited to 1600cc in Rally5 and 2000cc in Rally4).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Btw, Rally4 rules changes approved in last June (including a new 30mm restrictor) will only be effective from January 1. The cars will become a bit slower but, surprisingly, Rally3 cars will also be forced to use the small restrictor, meaning they won’t get any advantage on tarmac events regarding Rally4 cars.
June WMSC resolutions on Rally 5/4/3 can be seen on Regional Rally Championships section: https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announc...l-decisions-18
If tests show that Rally3 need this larger restrictor to be able to get the power needed to utilise the 4wd, FIA could opt to keep a bigger restrictor for the 4wd I guess.
If engines don´t last, car is not so cheap anymore...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Fully agree, but do we know that durability is the reason to reduce restrictor size, or is it that Rally4 is so much quicker compared to existing R2 cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex