seems Tanak has been a pain in ass for Finns
seems Tanak has been a pain in ass for Finns
That's probably the most illogical post i have seen in my entire life.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderem
It's not so hard to understand, just don't do it at a rally.
I've had to throw the car in the ditch myself due to rally drivers thinking they are immortal and it's not that much fun.
At least western Europe seem to have more common sense, good thing the rest of the world doesn't have a driving culture like Russia, I've never been so scared in traffic.
Nah I actually get their idea. The thing which bugs me is the western civilization has lived in their own bubble too long. Coming from the other side of idiocy (Soviet Union) I now see different side of progression of stupidity. It's like EU trying to decide what is the right curve of the banana :DQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
Problems with geography?
While I tend to agree with you in some points this western common sense thing is on the other side of your called russian stupidity. Both sides have gone into extremeQuote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
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If Russia scares you, then you haven't seen anything yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
But on topic. I think that you've blown it out of proportion with this case, Antti.
I'm not counting Russia as Europe if that's what you are alluding to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
It's nothing to do with nationality. It's nothing to do with Ott as a person. This is about the sport and how it's presented not only to us rally fans, but to people who don't share our passion. If Latvala or Lappi took that bit of road the same way my opinion and words would not be one iota different I can guarantee you that. And maybe they did, who knows? But the fact is here we have video of Ott and I would personally make a warning example out of him as a clear gesture that actions are being started to take against this kind of road driving behavior. Can we stay on topic please and leave out all the silly remarks regarding nationalism, snowflake generation, world being doomed etc.
see how close Ogier is doing donuts near a marshall.
my suggest is ban from 2018 championsip,and take back his 2017 championship.
we have to protect our sport.
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/phot...8-dsc_0583.jpg
For me the only risk is how close he got to the cars, as theoretically someone could have ran out from between the vehicles. Though I can imagine anyone going up that hill getting similarly close and posing a similar risk. Hanging the back out a bit is rather irrelevant, he'd be in as much or more control of the situation than many other users of that road travelling 'normally'.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
I've got a lot of respect for his video work, they're masterpieces, if we are indeed talking to Antti Kalhola. But I find it amazing that with everything that has occurred in the WRC over the last couple of years, this is what spurs anyone to start conversing with the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Like I say, dubious stuff goes on on road sections sometimes that is highly questionable and risky, that should be dealt with. This was nothing though and the risk posed above 'normal' driving was marginal if anything, not really worth getting worked up about. Should someone advise Ott to avoid it for PR reasons, sadly yes. Should he be disqualified from the rally? Don't be ridiculous.
I was waiting for this discussion to get there :D Having also been there, i can see that we are actually walking in circles. First there was communist ideology in some perverted socialist union, where strange things were condemned, then came liberation and perhaps too much freedom, where crime flourished and following law was arbitrary for many people, but where also were more free than they had been in long time, and now we are getting to new kind of controlled culture, time of snowflakes, SJWs, people losing their ability to think and to mind their own business. In principle i agree that everybody has to follow the law and what Tänak did was probably illegal to some degree. But I also support the freedom to break the law in some minor and harmless ways just time-to-time - after all, progress comes from change, many todays laws can be traced back to some people breaking old laws which has led to establishing new ones. Use of common sense should be protected at all times, especially from enforcing excessive punishments for minor breakings of law - like some dude demands disqualifications and stuff here. It like North Korea, where whole families are inprisoned if one member of family picks up rotting potato from roadside. And this is not even to make example - its their law, so is this justified?Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
Spot on mate!Quote:
Originally Posted by Indreq
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But can you really leave it out? Okay, nationalism isn't on topic. But others? It's like being politically correct? How far are you willing to go to please the system?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiK7
It's like having politically correct PR-trained monkeys as drivers who tell no matter what that the car is great, the stage was great, everything is awesome (And the Everything is Awesome song from the Lego Movie becomes the new WRC theme song) and so on.
It's life. Things come and go. And this kind of media attention lasts only as long as people keep clicking. And besides that next Monday I'm sure that 90% of the people who clicked, won't even remember it. Except the rally forums as the damn discussion is a vicious circle.
If you'd want to do have some common sense, then you need to crack down on the massive infringements like the crazy speedings. And if you still want to punish anything that doesn't comply with the system even then, then do it step by step. Or even better, autonomous road mode.
Yes admittedly I am not an active forum poster on any forum, but this time I saw a valid point worth raising and did so, but yeah I also knew what to expect when posting it on a motorsport forum. I also raised the same issue on a Finnish forum and surprisingly everyone who commented there agreed with my view, which I thought was surprising. But yes I'm very passionate about rallying, WRC and motorsport in general, but I also believe WRC should keep pushing ahead and not getting stuck or accepting bad habits just because something has always been ok or accepted. And you have to start somewhere if you want to take action against irresponsible road driving and here's the case to kick the campaign off.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
Guy who post this thread, get over it. I bet you get some fines as well I I bet you didn't like it that much. And then blame all others except yourself. Just get over it. Don't be a kid and grow up...
*facepalm*Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
This is totally the same.
Good luck "protecting our sport" once a rallydriver causes a crash on a publlic road while he is doing 170 km/h cause he "has to catch time control"
It's not about political correctness though really, it's about common sense for me. I like when drivers speak their minds and I'm a big fan of Ogier for that, he hasn't been afraid to say what he thinks and I like that a lot in a champion. So no, I don't want "corporate puppies" driving the cars. But I definitely don't want rally drivers showboating in public roads in liaison sections either. I don't want that kind of "expression of personality".Quote:
Originally Posted by Franky
Well, if You are trying to save the world, then don`t complain about it here. Write to organizers, FIA, Mäkinen, Toyoda, french Police, Tänak...
NOT being politically correct, people wondering if Loeb actually was a good driver and now this shit. Crazy times.
The problem with everyone here saying "it was safe, he was in control, it's being blown out of proportion" is that to the general public who know nothing about motorsport and see this happening it reinforces all the negative stereotypes about boy racers and people hooning around in cars. It reflects badly on the sport when competitors drive like this in a public setting (not on closed roads) and tars legitimate motorsport competitors with the same brush.
I have been organising club motorsport events in NZ for over 25 years (and involved in the club longer than that). We have in the past lost the use of public roads because of competitors driving on the touring route in exactly this manner, with residents who saw it putting in complaints to council or the private property owners that prevented us from using the same roads in the future.
Btw. do you remember Daniel Carlsson and the "WRADD" campaign? (Rally drivers against drunk driving).
Was some epic PR when the year after he got stopped by the police driving drunk.
Antti do you pretend to not understand or you really dont? Nobody is protecting here going 170kmh on opposite side of road or anything like this. What gets people ticked off is your black or white attitude, comparing this kind of violation to Tänaks harmless fun and demanding excessive punishment for this. If you really cant tell the difference then perhaps its better if you stay home and dont go outside at all. Because guess what - in real world punishment depends on severity of crime. You get one punishment for murder and police may overlook at all if you cross the road in wrong place but dont endanger anybody (including yourself).
A lot of tough internet warriors here. This videoclip probably fuels a negative attitude towards motorsport among people who are not passionate about it. So it's perfectly logical to be a fan and at the same time hope this doesn't happen too often.
About the phone: nobody should ever watch his phone while driving. You're driving something that potentially can kill somebody.
its exactly the same.According to your sceptic this marshall is at possible position for accident.Even the crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Nobody said that speeding with 170km/h at public roads is right.Only you said something like that.
Tanak was inside speed limits,and whatever possible danger could happen to these guys,could happen to everybody public driver with speed inside limits.
Yes Tanak can avoid much better a possible accident to happen,from every public driver out there,even sideways.
Exactly. And that's my main issue here. In my opening post I made it clear that this has nothing to do with Ott not being in control of the situation or danger being created in the video. It's about the image portrayed of the sport. And for me the main issue is that it goes so much against how I as a fan see WRC and just gives the plain wrong image to someone who doesn't understand the sport. In essence, for me Tänak with his behaviour on the video is bringing the sport into disrepute to use the FIA language.Quote:
Originally Posted by CahunaKiwi
Well yes, but the nonsense about ruining ones season with DSQ and bans from future events is too much. Normal people talk and improve themselves, if not, get a logical punishment...a fine for example.
While I agree with most of what my namesake is saying here, I think a fine and a warning would be enough, issuing bans or taking away points would do harm to the sport itself.
A fine would be in place.
If you did this in Norway you would get a minimum of 3 months without license, not a question about it.
If you get caught in a parking lot with nobody around you can get away with it though.
Why is this controversial? He saw some spectators filming and gave them a bit of a show. All of us would enjoy it if we were there.
A fine for what? Speeding? The guy was problably under speed limitQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
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Can anyone say if he could have actually gone much slower and without such sideways motion?
To me it looks a lot like a 400bhp car, incredibly sensitive throttle, on tarmac tyres, potentially without studs, going uphill (more power required) and cornering.... on snow.
Everything happens a lot slower on snow and a slide takes a lot less speed and cornering force than it would have done on gravel or dry tarmac.
Possibly a lot safer like that than if he just tried to cruise up and had potential understeer issues?
Yeah, it may look like he is close to the guy on the corner, but it’s a lot easier to let a car drift away from that chap, who is on the inside of the corner, than it would have been to get the car to make a tighter turn, if the chap was on the outside.
I get it might look quite dramatic, but I really don’t think it is.
Because there exist people who don't like rallysport. Probably most of the politicians in my country would rather have it abolished. Don't give them ammunition, it's not that hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by RM98
We as enthusiasts enjoy watching that car control. But what if those people parked and filming were not motorsport enthusiasts and were instead filming because they were looking for something controversial? They see a competitor "out of control" on a public road. They record it and send the video to the media. The media latch onto it. Hundreds more people who dislike cars and motorsport start voicing their displeasure. Pressure comes on politicians and council to prevent the event from running next year. Toyota gets negative publicity. Motorsport gets a negative image in the public's mind (because we are all "hoons" out there endangering the public for our own, selfish enjoyment).Quote:
Originally Posted by RM98
It's all about the image being portrayed. Arguably top-level competitors should be held to a higher level of accountability than normal citizens because they represent the sport as a whole to the general public. I don't think anyone should get a ban for doing something like this but they should definitely get a warning at the least. And as I said earlier I think that the organisers should be making sure their time schedules are planned such that competitors don't have to drive like this simply to get to the next time control on time.
Sticker says studs, but otherwise correct, they aren`t sweden tires.Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
They shouldn`t stop in a dangerous place then, where it`s tricky to pass because of ice and a 4wd WRC car can get a bit wild. Most definitely they were encouraging fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by CahunaKiwi
I don't see why people think this was a factor. Seems clear to me he was just hanging the back out for the fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by CahunaKiwi
I am in favour of a bigger punishment simply because it would mean something then. It would send out a message to other drivers as well as to the public that this kind of road behavior is not tolerated and WRC as a sport does not represent or align itself with this type of road driving. I would at the very least take his points away, no one is sending him to jail.
I'm raising it as a possible factor, not a definite cause - I don't know as I haven't looked at the time schedule. I do know that in the past unreasonable time schedules have definitely been a factor in this type of behaviour.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
Case a) Showing-off in a closed-out parking space for racecars with race-marshalls close and the crowd behind a barrier being watched by the same marshalls.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Case b) "Showing-off" on a public road close to people standing in the open next to a car
Totally the same.
few montes back, there was this video of Loeb passing by a gendarme by what it looked like only few centimeters. Everybody went crazy and people said this was very unsafe situation and really bad things could have happened, what if blabla blabla. Few hours later the onboard video came out, turn out that the gendarme was walking away from the racing line, loeb could see him from a fair distance, and he was in total control with nothing unsafe... So i would say that this short clip from Tanak is very much exagerated by the angle, the noise, whatever you name it. And good luck to find any formal offense to the code de la route to give him a fine. Maybe not putting his indicators when over taking the car?