I think a round in the baltics would be the best solution.
Rally culture is high, you already have a good fan base, stages characteristics are not different from Poland, some top drivers are from there.
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I think a round in the baltics would be the best solution.
Rally culture is high, you already have a good fan base, stages characteristics are not different from Poland, some top drivers are from there.
We need a round in Africa, sadly its not going to happened, we can all dream.
When everybody criticizes Poland what about Mexico and Argentina? Correct me if I'm wrong, I have never been there, but don't they have pretty similar issues with spectator safety? And (almost) no one talks about that, as these rounds have to stay to make the World Championship a World Championship...
The main problem is the quality of the roads (if there happens to be rain the roads are done) same like Lithuania in 2014 and also accommodation in the specific region.Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
From what I heard in this forum, they said they have sorted the Rally in Argentina, as for Mexico...apart from the high altitude (which you also get some of it in Argentina)...I see what you mean, but that's why people here are talking about NZ, Africa & Japan, which are in the world & not Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by JUF
Argentina has shown signs of improvement and willingness to improve safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by JUF
Mhm, I was there. While it's not perfect, the majority of spectators respect the marshals and move back if asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhlord
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Rain would not be the problem, at least in estoniaQuote:
Originally Posted by Lead
Our gravel roads are in much better quality than in Poland
Poland is unique rally. South-Europe rally is too rough and twisty, Germany and France (both versions) are tarmac. And fast flying gravel roads are gone? It represent all eastern Europe road types and it should be some rally at this region. Or some Baltic (Saarema or so) or Poland in WRC.
Mexico has no spectator issue. They years I have been there the Federal Police are in Full Force but not to the strict sorry retarded way Polish Marshals or Police are.
Federal Police in Mexico are taken seriously by spectators and media and they understand the limits and locations on the stages.
Went to Mexico when it was first ran as a WRC event. We could do whatever we wanted at that time. Luckily they had a few spectators at that time. I'm sure it's changed.
The safety question was already debated but another point is that while Mexico and Argentina are basically irreplaceable Poland is not. WRC shall not leave another continent especially when the events are hugely popular but there are so many European rounds that those must be really good to justify their place in the calendar. One less or replaced by another European event out of plenty options - who really cares?Quote:
Originally Posted by JUF
Taking Mirek's point about potential European rounds being really good if they are to be on the calender is something I believe applies world-wide. NZ and Acropolis should be the first candidates for any gap in the calender. The pinnacle events of the sport should only be held where the experience, tradition and positive enhancement of the WRC can be delivered. For this reason I was always against China and The Middle Eastern candidates, USA too. Cyprus, Barum and Ypres could make a useful addition as a new type of 2 day WRC round - all would be preferable to Poland
If we're honest about which rallies are eminently replaceable, I think it would have to be:
Sardinia (which, rumor is, will be replaced next year with an event on the Italian mainland because the promoter hates island rallies. I like island rallies. I'd love to see rally Azores in this slot. If ERC can make it work, and exceptionally well I might add, why can't WRC?)
Poland (which, rumor is, will be replaced next year for "safety" reasons. It would be great to have the Safari back in this slot. The REAL Safari rally, i.e. open roads, 1000km or more of competitive stages, helicopters, all that great stuff.)
Germany (as much as I like all the narrow tarmac through the vineyards, I would trade this for any tarmac rally, e.g. Ireland)
Spain (if this was all tarmac, I wouldn't trade it, but the first day on gravel is super forgettable IMO. I'd trade for a tarmac event like ypres.)
GB (I know, I know, there has to be a rally GB, because... well... not sure why exactly. But you have to admit this is a shadow of its former self. I'd trade it in a heartbeat for Japan.)
Australia (as far as I'm concerned, this is only on the calendar because it's on another continent and the government throws a load of money at it. But it is very, very forgettable. NZ would be better.)
Any idea of what period of the Croatia might be held? I'd like to do a back to back Sardegna/Italy with Croatia
I dont think Croatia will be in...Quote:
Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129337
This news article states that NZ and Croatia are running for 14th round, both would be run in September. Now that Poland is probably removed from the calendar, they could both get in. So basically that would give WRC a summer break instead of the September being completely rally free.
This is the event we're looking at: https://www.ewrc-results.com/events/646-croatia-rally/
I dont see any regular point why Croatia should be in WRC...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
There you go.Quote:
Ciesla said the planned event could go "straight into the top five" rallies for spectator attendance.
"It's true that we are not seeking more European rallies," Ciesla admitted.
"But Croatia ticks so many boxes from the infrastructure to these incredible roads which could make the cars dance.
"We could look at a mixed event with a day on gravel and two days on asphalt and we could even look at something new - some sort of a hillclimb event being included in the itinerary.
"On top of that, the event would be based in an area easily accessible to the teams and an area that has a real affinity for rally fans."
Isn´t money regular point for you, Pluto? :D
Of course I know that it is ONLY about money. Nothing about quality of the event, quality of the organisation, infrastructure...
Something is a bit strange for me about this Croatia thing. Coming fairly out of the blue to being right there about to get a calendar spot. Certainly no teams are asking for this, and I saw quotes (I think from Penasse) questioning why it was even being considered.
But you had a WRC promoter delegation visiting Croatia. Stories about it on WRC.com. Glowing quotes from Ciesla. What other candidate events are receiving that? It just seems a bit fishy to me. Like there are personal friendships or likely there's a load of cash involved.
Certainly Poland organisation shooting themselves in the foot at just the wrong time opens the door for this event. I certainly don't see how they can both exist.
I have no idea if these are any of the roads being considered used in Croatia but the scenery looks quite ok
https://www.google.no/search?q=Croat...+roads&imgrc=_
You can find good stages there but there is very weak local rally scene with no local drivers being active on the internaitonal scene. It's also a small country with a small car market and there is no car manufacturer located in Croatia. I don't see any added value for having a WRC round there.
Maybe this road !
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cc_rc/...7682283355963/
Croatia would be a perfect candidate late in the year. I would go for it.
Regrettably the FIA and the WRC promoter are still struggling to choose the series future: to promote a worldwide expansion or keep WRC eurocentered? Both ways have pros and cons, but at same point they must decide which to take, as these constant reports about new events here and there are a clear sign of disorientation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Beside deciding were to focus the series, they also must question the events layout, as the current two and a half days 9 to 5 routine seems to be exhausted. On that one I hope they can think out of the box, as it’s possible to have the old endurance character back, alongside the sprint cost saving current needs.
One way to do it is to get a handful of iconic events, with larger routes and schedules (a sort of WRC grand slam), and to condensate the others rally’s into a full day marathon leg, with around 250 stage kms and only one service halt. The extra cost of those grand slam events would be compensated by the savings made on the others and it’d be possible to increase the number of rounds without loosing major events identity.
Anyway, what’s important is to hurry up decisions and if they’re clueless about the path to take they can always ask fans what they want, like it was done with the new WRC cars survey a couple of years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnybobiche
ou ou ou slow down kid.
There has been 13 rallies a year since 2010. If I'm correct the majority of WRC teams oppose any kind of expansion, so I don't know how can you add more rallies. IMHO this year's calendar is quite good, Poland is the only one I wouldn't consider a classic. But teams and fans like the event, it adds to the championship, pity for the spectator safety aspect.
Safari, Acropolis and a round in Japan would be a great addition. And of course, NZ.
You've raised some good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Personally, I'd still say the WRC should make the best of the number of events it has now; its still not big enough to expand into 14+ rounds - as that will just add more cost - and is there value in added events?
As for event formats, I sadly think we're stuck with the current 'generic WRC event'; I've never been a fan of the 'one size fits all' events - and would like to see a bit more variety to events. A mix of 2, 3 and even 4+ day events. Certain events, e;g the Monte should be a long Endurance type event (as should Rally of GB), wheres you could have Corsica over 2 days.
But I just can't see it happening; I'm not sure the will is there - and they'll claim its too expensive. I think we're stuck with the anaemic 2 and a bit day events.
I agree. Some good format were made in 2011 - 2013. Actually, Day 1 (Thursday) have no sense: shakedown for P1 and P2 is only a media event (they made tests on their own) and i preferred when events opened with two-three special stages (with some night stages), not with super special stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Croatia has nothing to offer, it will be another Bulgaria...
Would Cyprus or the Acropolis (with external sponsorship to fund the event) be preferable?
I wouldn't want to see another rough gravel rally, we already have Mexico, Sardegna, Argentina and Portugal for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeakiwi
Both Acropolis and Cyprus would be preferable. Acropolis is a legend and also Cyprus is a very special event. Completely different to Mexico, Portugal or even Sardegna.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeakiwi
This years ERC Cyprus Rally was held also close to the biggest Tourist resorts of the island with some special stages going directly next to some beaches - stunning scenery for a TV powerstage for example. Michelle Mouton was also there to check the event this year according to some press releases. Maybe behind the curtain there is already something going on.
And Rally Acropolis is one of the iconic events in WRC. If it is in any form possible to have a WRC round there, it must have its place in the calendar.
But Tour de Corse used to be one of the longest events, not by the number of days, but by stage hours. The drivers would spend four hours on stages a day, the same amount a 1000 Lakes Rally would last in total.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Rallying was more endurance based up until the Group B ended, then it became more speed oriented. Even the "Grand Prix" event, 1000 Lakes Rally used to have just two legs until 1985, a normal Friday evening leg and then a second leg which lasted for 24 hours with only lunch and dinner breaks, driving all night with no sleep in between. I think it's fair to say that you don't race it up to the tenths of second on the last hours of that leg.
The current WRC format is most likely made to fit for TV. They want to put emphasis on the power stage. If you drive five days in the woods before the power stage, there's no reason to count the seconds anymore, everything's already decided. This season we've had even the winner being decided on the power stage, that's exactly what they want. And TV is also why all events have a more or less same timetable, they must end on Sunday afternoon. In the 80's, RAC And Monte Carlo would start on a Sunday
Rallying has also become more intense with the split times and real time following. Back in the 70's even the drivers didn't know what their position was when they entered a stage. Personally I think 2,5 days of intense split time following is a good amount, if the rallies lasted for more days or were run in the night time, I'd probably fall back to just checking the results every now and then.
At the same time, I wouldn't mind if some events were allowed to have a proper competitive day on Thursday. Like GB, Monte, TDC.
acropolis ? wake up kid.... we do not have acropolis.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Well whatever rally starts with an A :DQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Honestly just moving the event format back to what it was a few years ago (three relatively full legs, plus some Thursday PM stages) would be a victory.
We've been locked into the same format for quite a few years now. I guess the basic question is: does it work?
I'm trying to look at this objectively. Because as someone who attends 3-4 rounds a year I want to ultimately see more rallying. Always. But damn this year has been good so far. The best season in a LONG time.
WRC Promoter could probably come out and say - our product is fine, we're not changing a thing.
As fans we're not privy to the real TV numbers. We can look anecdotally at the amount of fans in the stages, the number of WRC cars and sponsors coming/going. I guess if even a great season like this isn't growing the profile of the sport then that's a problem.
What are the long-term goals for the WRC? What should they be?
Actually looking at the average speeds on juwra, seems that Cyprus would be something different indeed to the season because the winning average speeds have been only 60-70 km/h whereas the current rough gravel events or Acropolis have more like 80-90 km/h (Argentina closer to 100 in the last two years).Quote:
Originally Posted by tc10a
EDIT: Should have gone to ewrc for more recent results, apparently now it's a mixed surface event that's again faster...