We have seen , though , that the Merc , whether in Nico's or Lewis's hands , has a lot of trouble in dirty air , so getting close enough was a tall ask .Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Printable View
We have seen , though , that the Merc , whether in Nico's or Lewis's hands , has a lot of trouble in dirty air , so getting close enough was a tall ask .Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Hamilton is lucky in that respect because he has a pretty successful history of crowding Rosberg into a mistake. The last race was no exception. I remember Monza being a good example a couple of years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
To what use? Lewis will never follow them.
What makes you think Nico will?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
Well , he did just say that would .Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Because he already proved that he does? Monaco GP anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
That's an idea - swap the offender with Wehrlien!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
See post #40.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
I can't be bothered to write it again.
Sorry , henners , but you need to cut Nico some slack on that one .Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
If he had held Lewis up any longer , you would have flayed him for being selfish and not playing the team game , and you know it .
He let him by because it was the right thing to do .
The one thing I don't get about this ranking is that you said one post above you would rank Hamilton higher if not for his ability to **** up sometimes. How much higher than that?Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
He let him by because he knew he would wreck his tyres trying to defend. It was the right thing to do for him, Hamilton and the team. If the order had come when Nico believed he had a chance to win, I am not convinced he would have moved over. I don't think either of these guys would move over in that situation, nor should they.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
If he had held Hamilton up and cost either of them a win, of course I would have criticised him.
I meant in historical company. I view him as the best around today, but not amongst the very best drivers in history. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben
Hamilton has never in his life thought about the team. Why should Nico? All it would have taken was to delay im one or two more laps and RIC would have won even with the pit blunder. Yet, Rosberg, didn't hesitate. Lewis would never do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
One is a triple World Champion and the other is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Rosberg needs to be more ruthless but be good at it too.
I kind of agree.
These kind of things have always happened in motorsport and if you are good enough and ruthless enough they seem to work for you (Senna, Schumacher (although it worked once and failed once).
Nico had some luck in Monaco where it worked but generally he comes out even or worse off.
I without doubt see more incidents ahead as this Championship looks closer than either of the last 2.
It is the ever-lasting dilemma, isn't it? For spectators it is great and even for the team it can create some additional publicity if there is a great rivalry, which catches attention.
On the flip-side you don't want to lose too many points and you don't want to look unprofessional. Even though Mercedes currently enjoys a relatively comfortable advantage in the points, they won't tolerate crashing out in every other race.
The last two incidents have involved Lewis going for gaps and Rosberg being far too aggressive. Yes you could say Lewis is aggressive too by trying to sneak by, but I do think Nico needs to learn that contact is not the only way to defend. There is nothing wrong with closing a gap, but both racers need to respect each other.
Just remember back to when Button and Hamilton were battling in Turkey a few years ago, they touched but had a mutual respect for each other. They knew when to pull out or yield. I don't get the impression Nico has that level of race craft and he does tend to buckle at times when under pressure on track. His best moment was Bahrain 2014. I wish we could go back to that level of professionalism from both of them.
The main problem is both drivers are sulky when they don't get their own way. At least when Button was Hamilton's teammate he didn't hold a grudge, he is generally a nice guy. That is why Barrichello looked bad in 2009 when he played the sulky card with the media. Mercedes need 2 very different personalities, not 2 identical IMO.
I regard Alonso as the best of the current grid and, unless someone does an amazing season like he did in 2012, I can't really see that changing. Hamilton is a great driver but he does not walk with the all time greats, in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
What annoys me about Hamilton is he has the ability to be amongst the all time greats but his work etiquette, or lack thereof, is what lets him down. He doesn't work enough with his Engineers. On any one day, he can be untouchable but then the next he will piss around and be completely off form. Look at Baku qualifying, or Austria Free Practice sessions. He's very inconsistent. I don't remember many off days for Schumacher in his prime. He was simply incredible, the best ever as far as I am concerned. I can remember many, many off days for Hamilton and it doesn't have to be that way if he worked harder.
In the Monaco circumstances, Hamilton would have realized just as Nico did that he could not win the race with the car under him and in the interest of the team he has to step aside. You are suggesting that Hamilton is unreasonable. I find that quite surprising.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Well. Mercedes may indeed employ team orders, but it is unlikely drivers would yield them... Except in extraoardinary circumstances, i.e at Monaco in 2016, because Rosberg was so slow and deep down he knew he had no chance to 'fight' for the win. Otherwise - who can blame the drivers, when the WDC is on the cards in a close fight. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
It reminds me a bit of Red Bull situation between Vettel and Webber, where the drivers repeteadly didn't obey to team orders (Brazil '12, Malaysia '13), forcing Horner to admit that "drivers failed understand, what Multi-12 or Multi-21 means." :p:
But these things can happen, when there are two 'difficult' characters racing on one piece of tarmac. And all of them want to win!
---
I think the main problem for Mercedes isn't that the drivers 'race' against each other, but... when they collide. Recall the late phase of 2014, when there were multiple races in which Rosberg qualified ahead, but Hamilton passed him on track (US, Japan). Good clean fights. I don't think anyone had a problem with these.
However, when there is "racing", you can't completely iron out possible mistakes one (or both) contenders may make. So it is a difficult dilemma for Mercedes. They must trust their own drivers are professional enough, which means that while they are racing against each other, they have the skills not to make many mistakes in these situations.
This may well be where Hamilton and the team are falling out. He is being a little complacent in his work etiques. The main reason for that is the competition is really not there. All he has to do to win a title is beat Rosberg. If Ferrari and Redbull were more closer and punishes him when he is off his game, then he would find the need to stop pissing around. I think, Mercedes realize this, which may be why they are giving Rosberg more support. His gratitude for the opportunity seem to be only in words and not in attitude. That is another reason why l am rooting for Rosberg. But Rosberg frustrates me just as much as Hamilton does. Enough for me to wish Verstapenn or Ricciado could have more performance in the next few races to punish Mercedes for their complacency. At team and driver level.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
BRAVO MERCEDES
Mercedes would not impose team orders
Bravo Toto
Bravo Paddy
Bravo Lauda
xxxxxxxxxxx [loads of kisses]
Here's some of what Nico had to say :
"For sure this is a serious matter which needs to be discussed.Because we are teammates in the end, and we must avoid contact and collisions and costing the team points in such a way.
Definitely it must be discussed, and that's what we did, very constructively, and come to some conclusions, agreements, and now it's moving forward.
For sure the message has arrived. They have done a very good job in bringing home the message."
"a very good job" sounds like he's happy with the "message" .
Hmmmm .
I wonder what the message is .
And , who it was for .
:stareup: You never know with Nico, he is one cold fish. I think at least part of "the message" was directed at Niki, like keep your trap shut!
It sounds like Mercedes have given Nico a step by step guide in how to defend without ploughing into Lewis lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
To me , it sounds like Nico and Lewis have been told that there will be no more crowding of team mates off the track .
Message received .
I'm sure they were both told that but Nico needs to pay more attention as the last two crashes have been his responsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Point made , message received , then .