New Qualifying format a flop or not?

Qualifying can either be a way of finding out who is the quickest and rewarding them with a start at the front or it can be a way of starting a race in such a way as to garner the most 'entertainment'. The decision makers seem to want to do both at the same time and, in my view at least, it doesn't work.

If you want 'entertaining' races why not start each race in reverse championship order? It's clean, easy to understand and can't be 'gamed' by the teams. It makes a mockery of everything the sport stands for and the value of a grand prix win is effectively meaningless but at least the masses will be 'entertained' watching the front runners make their way through the field each race.

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Originally Posted by Duncan

This. I really don't understand Bernie & Jean's apparent obsession with the need to "mix things up". It's a motor race. The fastest driver & car combination that makes it to the checquered flag is supposed to win.

And really, is Bernie concern with the races being "a bit boring" actually valid at this point? Right now we've had two really interesting races (all the way up and down the order!) and everything points to that situation continuing. All this nonsense with qualifying is creating a new problem in the name of solving one that doesn't exist.

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:bounce:

Qualifying was the one part of the grand prix weekend that actually worked and was exciting to watch (most of the time), and now it's not.

Yes, why can't they just LEAVE IT ALONE???!!!

Well, here we go. Qualifying format will be reverted to last year's format, starting at the Chinese GP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...ack-from-china

We've heard that before :D

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Originally Posted by MrJan

We've heard that before :D

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I want single lap aggregate qualifying in a solid one hour session with everyone waiting until the 58th minute to set a time and then randomly reverse sections of the grid.

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Originally Posted by steveaki13

I want single lap aggregate qualifying in a solid one hour session with everyone waiting until the 58th minute to set a time and then randomly reverse sections of the grid.

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The only way I could accept that is if they have a wheel of fortune with pictures of the drivers' faces stuck on it, to decide which part of the grid to reverse. That was so classy when they did it in BTCC.

"Lost in Space" response from our Bernie , saying that nobody understood at all that they were trying to "muddle up" the grid .

We all understood very well , simply because they never avoided any remote opportunity to tell us exactly that when being asked why such a stupid set of rules was being considered .

Really curious , when he could have characterized it as being a case of "listening to the fans" , which would , at the same time , demean the teams , showing them as unimportant in the process .
It seems strange to see such a missed dig .

I did see , though , that he had the teams agree to revamping the whole shootin' match for next year , so , this nightmare may not actually be over .


And , who knows , it could have all been designed to display the teams as a cartel , as we know the European Commission looms possible in the near future .
The whole change the qualifying idea was so stupid that it had me looking off to the side to see the man behind the curtain .
Maybe there's a bigger picture here .

I got bored again.

Qualifying with fuel minimums of one kilo per championship point (0.03 seconds per lap per kilo handicap).

			After Handicap	New Grid	Change
1	Nico Rosberg	1:35.402	1:36.902	7	-6
2	Daniel Ricciardo	1:35.917	1:36.637	4	-2
3	Kimi Räikkönen	1:35.972	1:36.512	2	+1
4	Sebastian Vettel	1:36.246	1:36.696	5	-1
5	Valtteri Bottas	1:36.296	1:36.476	1	+5
6	Daniil Kvyat	1:36.399	1:36.579	3	+3
7	Sergio Perez	1:36.865	1:36.865	6	+1
8	Carlos Sainz	1:36.881	1:36.941	8
9	Max Verstappen	1:37.194	1:37.464	9
10	Nico Hulkenberg	1:37.333	1:37.513	10
11	Felipe Massa	1:37.347	1:37.767	11
12	Fernando Alonso	1:38.826	1:38.826	12
13	Jenson Button	1:39.093	1:39.093	13
14	Romain Grosjean	1:39.830	1:40.370	14

Bottas pole!!!

After 2 races, handicapping is working to mix up the top of the order. The cream will rise to the top in the race we would expect.

As the season progresses, a fuel weight handicap should begin to have an affect further down the order.

I'm thinking that Hamilton will finish on the podium tomorrow. I still have a feeling that mixing up qualifying is about creating gambling markets.

Beginning to think it doesn't matter what qualifying system they use if they're all going to crash into each other at the first corner - not an ideal way of shuffling the pack, but it seems to work :)

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

"Lost in Space" response from our Bernie , saying that nobody understood at all that they were trying to "muddle up" the grid .

We all understood very well , simply because they never avoided any remote opportunity to tell us exactly that when being asked why such a stupid set of rules was being considered .

Really curious , when he could have characterized it as being a case of "listening to the fans" , which would , at the same time , demean the teams , showing them as unimportant in the process .
It seems strange to see such a missed dig .

I did see , though , that he had the teams agree to revamping the whole shootin' match for next year , so , this nightmare may not actually be over .


And , who knows , it could have all been designed to display the teams as a cartel , as we know the European Commission looms possible in the near future .
The whole change the qualifying idea was so stupid that it had me looking off to the side to see the man behind the curtain .
Maybe there's a bigger picture here .

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I bet they would try numbered balls in a bucket next.

This new qualifying format was the creation of complete imbeciles. The sad part is that Bernie & Co will probably think of something even worse for 2017.

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Originally Posted by inimitablestoo

Beginning to think it doesn't matter what qualifying system they use if they're all going to crash into each other at the first corner - not an ideal way of shuffling the pack, but it seems to work :)

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It is consistent for all drivers and easily implemented because current rules require drivers to return to the pits with a minimum fuel load. Different drivers would return with different minimums.

	New	Old		Before	After	Cg	Handicap	Weight
	1	3	Valtteri Bottas	1:36.536	1:36.746	+2	0.21	+7
	2	2	Sebastian Vettel	1:36.123	1:37.113	0	0.99	+33
	3	7	Sergio Perez	1:37.212	1:37.212	+4	0	0
	4	4	Kimi Räikkönen	1:36.663	1:37.503	0	0.84	+28
	5	1	Nico Rosberg	1:35.417	1:37.667	-4	2.25	+75
	6	5	Felipe Massa	1:37.016	1:37.676	-1	0.66	+22
	7	9	Max Verstappen	1:37.583	1:37.973	+2	0.39	+13
	8	8	Daniil Kvyat	1:37.459	1:38.089	0	0.63	+21
	9	6	Daniel Ricciardo	1:37.125	1:38.205	-3	1.08	+36

Anyway, just playing but Bottas is on pole again.

From this race onward, the extra weight will begin to influence who graduates from Q2 to Q1. Good to see Perez in the mix.

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

It is consistent for all drivers and easily implemented because current rules require drivers to return to the pits with a minimum fuel load. Different drivers would return with different minimums.

	New	Old		Before	After	Cg	Handicap	Weight
	1	3	Valtteri Bottas	1:36.536	1:36.746	+2	0.21	+7
	2	2	Sebastian Vettel	1:36.123	1:37.113	0	0.99	+33
	3	7	Sergio Perez	1:37.212	1:37.212	+4	0	0
	4	4	Kimi Räikkönen	1:36.663	1:37.503	0	0.84	+28
	5	1	Nico Rosberg	1:35.417	1:37.667	-4	2.25	+75
	6	5	Felipe Massa	1:37.016	1:37.676	-1	0.66	+22
	7	9	Max Verstappen	1:37.583	1:37.973	+2	0.39	+13
	8	8	Daniil Kvyat	1:37.459	1:38.089	0	0.63	+21
	9	6	Daniel Ricciardo	1:37.125	1:38.205	-3	1.08	+36

Anyway, just playing but Bottas is on pole again.

From this race onward, the extra weight will begin to influence who graduates from Q2 to Q1. Good to see Perez in the mix.

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To be honest, your qualifying format "idea" makes me vomit

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

To be honest, your qualifying format "idea" makes me vomit

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Thats a new one for me, I have never heard of an "idea" acting as an emetic. The DRS and KERS had a similar effect on me but from the other end.

I was actually thinking that I may not put up any more tables now that Rosberg has filled his tank. The thought of your keyboard swimming in cheap wine and vindaloo may be all the encouragement I need to continue.

Thank you for your input.

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

Thats a new one for me, I have never heard of an "idea" acting as an emetic. The DRS and KERS had a similar effect on me but from the other end.

I was actually thinking that I may not put up any more tables now that Rosberg has filled his tank. The thought of your keyboard swimming in cheap wine and vindaloo may be all the encouragement I need to continue.

Thank you for your input.

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Make sure that as you continue your quest for this holy new qualifying system, you don't overlook your real duty - asking me "do you want fries with that" when I order a burger.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

...don't overlook your real duty - asking me "do you want fries with that" when I order a burger.

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The latest grid installment at .03 seconds per kilogram handicap:

New	Old		Before	After	Cg	Handicap Secs	Weight Kgs
1	1	Lewis Hamilton	1:22.000	1:23.171	0	1.71	57
2	4	Max Verstappen	1:23.087	1:23.477	+2	0.39	13
3	3	Daniel Ricciardo	1:22.680	1:23.760	0	1.08	36
4	8	Carlos Sainz	1:23.643	1:23.775	+4	0.12	4
5	9	Sergio Perez	1:23.782	1:23.842	+4	0.06	2
6	7	Valtteri Bottas	1:23.522	1:24.092	+1	0.57	19
7	10	Fernando Alonso	1:23.981	1:24.221	+3	0.24	8
8	6	Sebastian Vettel	1:23.334	1:24.324	-2	0.99	33
9	12	Jenson Button	1:24.348	1:24.378	+3	0.03	1
10	11	Nico Hulkenberg	1:24.203	1:24.383	+1	0.18	6
11	5	Kimi Räikkönen	1:23.113	1:24.403	-6	1.29	43
12	2	Nico Rosberg	1:22.280	1:25.280	-10	3.00	100

Applying a weight handicap in qualifying could be a way forward for F1. Only trigger the DRS by cars under blue flag could be another. We might actually see some racing again.

It sure beats a re-write of the rule book.

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

Applying a weight handicap in qualifying could be a way forward for F1.

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Also, castrating yourself could be used for weight-loss. Just as good an idea as yours :idea:

I still don't really understand why everyone is so obsessed with changing a qualifying format that works really well right now. If it isn't broken then don't fix it.

As Ross Brawn said, they tried many different formats before coming up with this one that works really well so why change it?

If you're to change anything in F1 then start by getting rid of DRS and bring Back a tire war. That's a sure way to get drivers racing flat out lap after lap again and stop artificial overtaking.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I still don't really understand why everyone is so obsessed with changing a qualifying format that works really well right now. If it isn't broken then don't fix it.

As Ross Brawn said, they tried many different formats before coming up with this one that works really well so why change it?

If you're to change anything in F1 then start by getting rid of DRS and bring Back a tire war. That's a sure way to get drivers racing flat out lap after lap again and stop artificial overtaking.

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Absolutely no argument from me especially on the DRS but I saw the qualifying changes as trying to address a bigger problem.


I don't think that the Mercedes is qualifying to its full potential but being managed "equally" such that the grid 1 and 2 is guaranteed. Nobody would argue that Spain is a very different race if Nico starts in 12th place.


The formula is supposed to be an engineering challenge but what to do when that challenge is clearly won? They're limiting the available fuel :rolleyes: so its not like Ferrari can unveil a new V12 dual turbo engine. Banning was F1's way of dealing with dominance in the past but F1 has signed itself up to something it can't really ban - there's no getting the hybrid sh*t back in the hybrid horse so to speak.


Mercedes needs to be challenged in a way that doesn't penalise their race expectations and a weight handicap for qualifying seems logical. No change to the qualifying format is necessary and cars will just need to return to the pits with the required minimum amount of fuel in their tank - just as they do now.


I would actually like to see the full Mercedes potential and what a true marvel that car really is.