IF Haas has bought the Marussia factory ,there is planty of Tesco stores closing ,they would make a super F1 Facility !
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IF Haas has bought the Marussia factory ,there is planty of Tesco stores closing ,they would make a super F1 Facility !
They will be returning to the factory they used when they were known as Virgin Racing..... and I was always told it was not possible to recapture your virginity
I wonder if the new engine will even fit in the old car.Quote:
Originally Posted by anfield5
Marussia may not be the onloy team in trouble. This is from Autoweek (a credible source) Feb 2nd:
Ralf Bach, a correspondent for Sport Bild and TZ Munchen who now writes on his own blog f1-insider.com, said he has learned that Force India's Jerez absence is "because it has no monocoque" for the new VJM08 car.
He said Force India has not been delivered the 2015 monocoque by carbon supplier EOM "because bills have not been paid".
I hope Bach is getting bad info. The last thing any of us wants to see is a 16 car grid at Melbourne.
Good point Doc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin
I would assume that it will, or very nearly will though, as some teams have basically evolved last years cars, rather than designed new ones (apart from RBR who seem to have developed last years Mercedes)
If the other engine makers copied Mercedes' forward mounted, turbo-driven compressor, it is hard to believe there would not be colossal packaging problems fitting it to a 2015 car. That, and it's also hard to believe they would have enough time for all of that. I think if we see them at all it's going to be with the cars in the configuration they raced in last.
Then again, I've certainly been wrong before.
Will be interesting to see what and when things do happen. Hopefully Caterham are in a similar position and we get back up to 11 teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin
I find it hard to believe that you are ever wrong Doc :)
This might be the end after all: F1 Strategy Group rejects bid by Marussia to keep 2014 car.
Why would F1 shoot itself in the foot like this? This practically guarantees an 18 car grid at best, and even that is only if Force India makes it.
From the link
How could those teams possibly think dropping the grid to 18 cars is good for the sport, and long term, good even for their own interests? If force India doesn't make it, that's 16 cars, and the teams think that would be ok?Quote:
The Strategy Group includes Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren and Williams on a permanent basis, as well as the next best placed constructor, which this year is Force India.
Maybe it's really the teams that want to run three cars, because with this vote they are one step closer.
There was one opposing voice - Force India. They hope by blocking Marussia's return they'll get their hands on some of the 54 Million Marussia were entitled to for their 9th in the constructors last year. I now strongly hope FI goes under or someone burns down their factory.
I would assume that the value of the Force India team/entry is greater without Marussia in the frame. Someone could by up the marussia team and entry and ignore FI, who would presumably want more money. Being the only available team makes FI worth more, if they are in as much trouble as it seems and if Mallya is looking to sell/attract investment. It is still a low blow, also if they think they would get an extra $6m (1/9th of the $54) if marussia don't turn up. Hopefully they will change their minds and let Marussia try to make a go of it
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...ons-off-assets
"The end of the Caterham Formula One team moved a step closer on Thursday with an announcement from auctioneers that they would sell off the team’s assets next month.
As Marussia – another backmarker of recent seasons – continued to cling on for F1 survival the game is all but up for Caterham, who entered administration last October.
"
Then we would be down to 16 cars. How would that help the sport?Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
I HOPE THIS IS THE ONLY REASON
http://www.pitpass.com/52789/Ecclest...cars-to-rivals
""They would supply a third car to someone else so if, for example, Sauber disappeared, a team could do a deal with Sauber. Ferrari could say, 'we will give you a car, all that goes with it, and we want you to put this sponsor on it. You have your own sponsors but we want you to include this one as well and we want you to take this driver'. The team wouldn't have to go under then would they? If Red Bull decided they would give a car to Caterham for example that could solve their problem."
If several teams go under it would trigger the need for the remaining ones to supply third cars to them. Last month Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff said "there's a regulation which says if the grid drops below 20 cars, so 19 cars, then there is a certain mechanism which would trigger certain teams to fill in." The reason for this is contained in the contracts with race promoters which state that F1 "shall use its reasonable endeavours to ensure... that at least sixteen cars participate in the Event ."
"
It's a shame the report on that site doesn't provide any insights into the working of the strategy group. Like would this have been a majority vote, or could it have been a veto by a single team who want to run 3 cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin
It had to be unanimous, the only team who voted against marussia being able to use a '14 car was Force IndiaQuote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
Well, the number one problem with F1 is that F1 is being run by an extremely short sighted E and other commercial interests. For them F1 is not a sport, but a money making machine. E does not care what happens to F1 in ten or twenty years (he will be dead then). He wants to extract as much as he can right now.
The number two problem is that the commercial rights to F1 are not owned by the teams. Ever wonder why the new teams had little chance to succeed? Ever wonder why all of F1's teams get only half of F1's TV rights income while the rest goes into the pockets of fatcats like E, CVC, and other self-entitled suits? When I think about it, I always start thinking that it would have been great if F1 teams broke away from E and setup a new championship.
And last problem is the runaway costs. The horrendous price of the new (2014- spec) engines is only a tip of the iceberg. The real problem is that everyone who is doing business with F1 thinks that F1 teams can print their own money. The FIA, the track owners, the tire manufacturers, the engine suppliers, fuel supply. etc. As a result, a team with a budget of 100 millions USD (enough to fund the entire IndyCar grid for a season) can barely afford to build a passable chassis that barely falls within the 107 percent rule and then maybe hire a couple of pay drivers.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/0...al-teams-veto/
Sounds like it was all about money. Marussia's share of the TV revenues including their prize money for beating Sauber and Caterham will be shared between the remaining teams. I guess Force India really need the extra cash.
This just makes me wonder how bad it will have to get before all of these people realize something has to be done to keep the teams healthy.
How long will the public remain convinced F1 is the pinnacle if only eight teams can be bothered to even show up? Every year we hear how bad things are at Indianapolis, but they can still scrape 33 cars together.
As I have documented earlier on this thread, Force India reportedly can't even pay for it's own tubs, but now they are allowed to vote another team off the grid? How stupid will they all look if Force India can't answer the bell either?
well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin
it is ridiculous. all these teams are shortsighted and think of themselves only, even to the detriment of the sport.
having such a small grid is an embarrassment to the sport and given a chance to correct that problem, they of course chose to make it worse.
at the end of the day, i still assign the majority of the blame to the FIA and Max Mosley who screwed up the process in such a way that he bribed 3 financially unsound teams to enter the sport, while rejecting real buds that would have been around today. ohm, and a 4th "USF1" that didn't even make the grid.
FI teams and the FIA have already killed the golden goose, now they are trying to bury it
While they still have a brand, I think F1 needs to salvage it's image. It is downright embarrassing they can't scrape 20 cars together, especially when those cars already exist! When Indianapolis looks like they might not make 33, they will pull an old sled or two out of the museum, just so they don't embarrass themselves to the point no one cars any more.
F1 let the costs get so out of control that only manufacturer backed teams can afford to do it. Williams is the only independent team that doesn't seem to be facing some sort of financial crisis, but remember that before Martini they were forced to put up with Maldocrashdo (or is that Shuntanaldo?).
Of the rest, count up the ride buyers and that will tell you who is and isn't in money trouble. This means that you have to take Sauber and Lotus out of the picture when it comes to healthy teams, so who is left? Force India? Are you kidding?
Outside of Williams, the only comfortably solvent team not manufacturer supported is Red Bull, but they burn money like it's nothing just because they have it....just beause that is what they do, just for the pure hell of it. What happens when Mateschitz has had enough? If red Bull stops winning, how long will he keep pouring money in to run four cars? Where would the sport be without him? Is he going to live forever? Will his heirs have the same passion for lighting cigars will million dollar bills?
The rest are Ferrari (Fiat), Mercedes (Mercedes) and McLaren (Honda). And, what the hell, let's throw Torro Rosso in there too because they are part of the bottomless pit of Red Bull money.
Who is left? Is Lotus solvent? How About Force India?
Basically you have the manufacturers with their pet teams, and the grid filling scubs that they could care less about. Right now we are to the point Sportscars has found themselves in so often..... at the mercy of fickle manufacturers who can come and go whenever it suits them, and most of the time they go when it hurts the sport the most. Take a look at how many times sportscar racing has been decimated because manufacturers left.
In the end the answer is going to be simplier cars that more teams can afford to race, and an independent engine supplier that can sell the teams a power plant that gives them a chance, like in the old Cosworth days.
The answer is not, and never will be, excluding teams when you are already down to an embarrassing number.
Yeah, 18 cars. How great will that be when we lose another team?
From the old days, this was called "winning ugly". But when you need the money (as it sounds like Force India does), you do what ya need to do. And putting a bullet in Manor put more money in Force India's pocket.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
Is the dwarf going to bribe Force India,and put money in their sweaty palms to get them to allow Marussia to run. Or get Mr Russia ,or one of the big oil companies there to sponsor the team
http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8954926
"
Reports in Britain suggest Marussia are still hoping new owners can be found to get them racing sometime this year.
Under F1 rules, a team is allowed to miss three races during a season, meaning they could still line up in Bahrain in April.
"
let them turn up in April and beat the asshole teams
"It needed all the teams to agree and there were three or four of them that didn't agree."
lotus, force india, salba ?
http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com...to-f1-in-2015/
“Subsequent to this application, the team was informed on 5 January 2015, that the Strategy Group felt that two teams – Marussia and Caterham – should be permitted to race a 2014 car in the 2015 championship. The letter stated that the Strategy Group agreed that the car should comply with all of the 2015 technical regulations, with the exception of four articles, those articles being Articles 3.7.9, 15.4.3, 15.4.4 and 16.2. The team can confirm that the modifications to its 2014 car would meet this stipulation.
http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com...-win-in-paris/
The sad irony about this case is that the team that was the first to veto Marussia’s return was Force India – the very team that had threatened to boycott last November’s United States Grand Prix because of how F1 was treating the smaller fish outside of the Strategy Group. It has since become a member of the body, and its first act was to arguably do exactly what it had protested against in the past.
As long as Bernie is going to keep the rules such as they are that less teams equals more money, we are never going to see more than the nine teams we have now.
and let me add one thing about the teams and bernie.Quote:
Originally Posted by N. Jones
until you get a proper revenue sharing system F1 will continue to fail.
I think the likes of ferrari, mclaren, mercedes and rBR have gotten plenty of the bounty up to this point.
if they can just establish a proper revenue sharing system with an extra bonus for the rankings then that will certainly help
all these decisions based on money will go away quickly.
teams would know that they will be financially solvent forever
and if the bigger teams want to spend above and beyond, what would amount to be , a healthy lump sum of money, then tey can
and then will duly be taxed above an agreed upon ceiling
this idea is so simple and effective that it hurts my head to fathom as to why it is not been instituted when clearly it is what the sport needs.
The NFL has done it and all the teams are stinking rich because of it.
Combine that with a slight reduction in the race hosting fees ( which means cheaper tickets), a better television contract and taking advantage of the internet, and you will see F! regain its charm and popularity.
Funny thing is that in retrospect Max Mosley had a point with his budget cap idea. Okay, maybe it was too low (30M €) and maybe the proposal was too radical at the time that it shocked everybody, so that Max was sent out of the office... Anyway, I think Max saw, what was coming due to recession. And he was determined to push this change through.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
As for the choice of teams. They were all promised a budget cap. And I think they would have all struggled regardless of who would have been chosen. Who else were there applying, who didn't get a chance? Lola? Prodrive?
Campos team, using cars built by Dallara seemed like a strong team to enter F1, but Campos fell financially apart already before the 2010 season had even begun. Plus all new teams were going to use outdated Cosworth engines. There were no good outlooks for any newcomers.
Funny thing. I am not fond of the corrupt Max Mosley, at all. But I want him for one thing. To come back and tell all teams to "F*** off, we are going to have budget cap, cost cutting, and run F1 economically like we should, and you will not dictate anything here." Sometimes... in critical situations... a tough and determined leader is needed.:D
My answer would be that... sometimes situations must become truly critical for people to learn from it and actually change something. Otherwise they will be in the 'comfort zone' saying that "ok, it's not too bad yet, let's carry on."Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Austin
The loss of Marussia hasn't changed anything. Still 2 cars per team. F1's financial structure remains the same. Bernie carries on as always.
But imagine Lotus, FI, STR and Sauber all disappear and we are left with only 5 teams. Then everyone in power MUST act, because it is absolutely impossible to carry on.
Perhaps that's why we need a proper earthquake in F1.:)
F1 needs some kind of shock and soon.
I think most of us have said at some point that we think F1 is dying or heading down a dangerous road. And so it is proving.
Manor look to have little to no chance now and that is sad. That F1 as a whole will allow a potentially cash strapped team in Force India to block Marussia's entry.
18 cars guaranteed high and 16 is possible. F1 is in a mess.
Graeme Lowdon is now saying that their application to run a 2014 car was not vetoed, because they never made such an application:
"...we did not make any application to yesterday’s Strategy Group meeting and nor were we asked to."
As far as they are concerned they're still aiming to turn up with the old car modified to meet 2015 regulations, with certain exceptions that were apparently approved a month ago as per CNR's post above. (After their fairy godmother arrives with a pumpkin full of cash of course.)
Updated story on JAF1:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/0...al-teams-veto/
Forbes has it that about 200 companies are owed a pile of money , and some have assets they are holding hostage for money owed .
It looks like the money they are due to get from the prize fund may be pretty close to covering what is owed , but it doesn't come all at once , but rather , in installments through the year .
There needs to be some solid money behind this bid to start with , because , presumably , many of these 200 suppliers would be needed to be convinced to still supply the team to make it happen .
The team cannot carry on if it is deemed to be "insolvent" , so it must clear all this up asap .
If it does , it can miss 3 races , and still be a viable entry .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...-2014-car.html
Williams back Manor bid to return to F1 grid using modified version of 2014 car
Manor has been formed after Marussia fell into administration last year
The team want to compete using a modified version of last season's car
Force India voted against the motion for Manor to return after a meeting
Claire Williams insists her team will help secure their return
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...#ixzz3RYOqhDbB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
I hope Claire gives them a Williams chassis and they kick Force India's ass with it.
Good form Williams. Hopefully the other teams will be equally accommodating.
Force India's position does leave a bit of a bad after taste, but I can see their point. They are cash strapped and a re struggling to survive, but they have had to spend wads of cash to make this years grid with a car that meets the new rules, so allowing another hard-up team to save wads of cash by not having to comply is in many ways, completely unfair. So I can see why F.I are anti this.
Marussia are not about to give up.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ma...s-to-get-ready
I don't know if it is comic or heroic of them to hang on facing such insurmountable obstacles. It's like F1 wants the team to die, but they keep coming back out of spite.
Marussia really wants to be in the game and F1 can't afford to lose more teams. Even on their best day, Marussia is not much better than 10th place, so what could it hurt to let them run the 2014 car for a few races? Just make them ineligible for points until they have a proper 2015 car. That way no one could complain about it costing them prize money.
At least that way you keep Marussia in the game and give them a fighting chance to recover and maybe get solvent. Keeping them off the grid doesn't make F1 any better and it doesn't keep Marussia in business.
Of course, if F1 only needs 18 or potentially 16 car grids, I could be wrong. I'm still not convinced that Force India is going to make it either.
F1 should bring Dallara and Oreca to build 8 cars each. Under some BoP program (what? not even 2 million per car? Dallara's GP2, Indycar and Super Formula costs 800k or so)
Bring OEMs to build cheaper engines to be used by these 16 cars (illmor, hpd, cosworth, judd?...hmm engine lease program... what? 10 million $$?)
ANd then introduce those rules from moto gp, allowing these teams to use an extra set of the soft tires during qualify, not demanding them to run 2 types of tires during races.. to give them some advantages to improve competition with the manufacturer teams.......
....Who should really be doing 30 millions $$ MAX cars.
C'mooon.. The 4 million bucks Super Formula car were only 4 secs of Rosberg/Hamilton's pace in SUzuka last year (Comparing series)
Imagine how cheap tickets could be. Stands would be filled again, eh.
Here in Brazil, the cheappest F1 ticket cost THE SAME as 10 WEC tickets.
Also, with less money to spend, more sponsors would get envolved! On the cars, on the event...
F1 is just stuuupid. They are drowning into their own BS cuz they simply want to look like a princess... durrr
If it's about speed, a few years back an 90s vintage Nissan Group C was lapping Sebring faster than the dominant Audi R8, and that was on rock hard Avon control tires. The technology to go faster, cheaper has always been there.
What F1 has done is restrict the cars and then get the speed back with expensive technology. You can bet if they went back to the 3 litre ground effects rules the cars would be lapping 10 seconds minimum faster than the current billion dollar techno-sleds.
If you want to go fast cheaply, nothing beats brute force displacement. With a big motor and lots of grunt, you can run huge tunnels and huge wings and go like utter hell. If the goal is to go fast, it makes sense to do it this way rather than have 16-18 car grids that cost $100 million each a year to run.
http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story...try-fee-021715
Manor F1 Team pays 2015 entry fee
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNR
This is good news for F1. Hopefully the new ownership model is sustainable and they can eventually start to move forward. Some of their performances last year suggest that this might be the case... here's hoping.
Now they are officially out of administration , and Ferrari has said they will supply them with 2014 engines .
On Saward's blog , I had read that they would have more chance to make it as a result of being able to delay the actual entry onto the grid for 3 races , but I just read some speculation that it may not be so .
I'll try to figure out where I saw it , but it said that a team could only miss 3 outings until 2020 and since they have already missed 3 , they need to be at the opener .
I sure hope that's wrong , but if not , perhaps it can still happen anyway .
And , I also read they have crash tests planned for March .
The new Minardi , the plucky underdog .
So fitting that the press went to Minardi for comment on the situation when the teams tried to shut them out .
Go , Manor , go !
I hope they make it. They will probably be slow and it the way, but that's better than continuing to lose teams.
I am also reading so much about VJ Mallya's money troubles that I would not bet on Force India making it to Melbourne.